hi all. FLASH! emily the editrix has announced a remarkable event in TWO DAYS, the day after tomorrow as I write this-- a conversation between open salon CEO David Talbot and master conspiracist Oliver Stone.* [see links below this post for details on contents. Ill put asterisks where I have links]I can remember years ago the amazing buzz when the Stone movie on the JFK assassination came out. I never did see it, but at the time I found the MSMs pushback against the movie curious. there was no such term MSM at the time, but I could smell something fishy.
the JFK assassination was before my time and I never got too invested in it personally. but I do think its a valuable "training wheel" type historical and conspiracy event. for those of you who live in the Matrix, its one of the 1st glaring incidents from our history that causes significant cognitive dissonance among the thinking public.
wow, I had no idea that TALBOT was into conspiracy theory, but yep, sure enough, in 2007 he wrote a book that was reviewed by the NYT: "Brothers, the hidden history of the Kennedy Years".* the title may be misleading, it sounds like its a probable analysis of the JFK assassination. maybe the publisher thought the title too controversial to sell books?
alas I cant attend the event in santa monica & they didnt invite me anyway despite my esteemed and meticulous contributions to the field and on open salon. @#%&... I swear I would love to. those of you who've read my blog would know its very much up my alley. cringing with envy! I sure hope some other enterprising salon bloggers can attend & post a summary & pictures.
but, let me contribute something to the proceedings. heres a quickly hashed together post of some resources for anyone who might attend. study notes. a cheat sheet. with a slant toward some brilliant but not widely recognized open salon writers.
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so Ive never delved too deeply into the kennedy assassination but I do tend to agree with the conspiracy angle. the JFK conspiracy is somewhat disillusioning however even if you believe in it because 45 years after it happened, almost a half century, arguably we still do not have the truth. or rather, we do probably have the truth, but it hasnt seeped into widespread acceptance.
of course there is mountains of material on JFK conspiracy all over the web, but I havent searched it much at all. has anyone else? however Ive read several outstanding posts right here on open salon, one that really stuck out. rw005g is a progressive lawyer whose posted quite a bit on here & Ive traded lots of comments with. he wrote a brilliant post "Even congress admits lee harvey oswald didnt act alone".*
The Committee's results, while public record, were never widely publicized. Interestingly, the Committee officially stated that Lee Harvey Oswald didn't act alone, and that yes, there were additional shots fired by an unknown person located at the infamous "grassy knoll." The Committee stated that there WAS, indeed, a 4th shot, as shown by accoustical evidence analysis put forth by the National Academy of Sciences.
in my possibly faulty memory this was once flagged as a EP & maybe even made the salon cover page briefly, but it isnt currently an EP. I wonder if the EP was a-posteriori yanked? I seem to recall something like this. rw005g are you listening? do you remember? [maybe it was another post, does anyone else recall? digital footprints/fingerprints are very easy to erase....] if it happened I would sure have liked to have been a fly on the wall in that decision....
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anyway then theres two excellent relevant book reviews. 1st, by old new lefty, another person on here Ive traded many comments on here with. he reviews the James W. Douglass' book JFK and the Unspeakable: Why he died and why it matters.*
The military powers that be, in combination with the CIA and defense contractors had a vested interest in promoting the Vietnam War as much as they possibly could. And JFK's plans to actually withdraw from Vietnam ASAP appear to be the motivation for the conspirators to kill in Dallas. When you examine the CIA infiltration of Vietnam in 1963, you will find that it's totally equivalent to the CIA infiltration of Afghanistan. And this puts current events into perhaps a different light.
afghanistan as the current war of our times? compared to vietnam? yeah exactly. and 911 parallels the assassination of kennedy followed by the runup of the vietnam war.
was JFK MURDERED BY THE US WARMACHINE?
the book has strong evidence this is exactly the case.
yes, I hear the snickers from the peanut gallery.
no, sorry, I do not own any tinfoil hats.
but I do proudly own a fully tinfoil-plated blog. and by the way thanks for reading it, wink =)
of course when I talk about the "warmachine" I am using a convenient shorthand for the a nexus of human "powers that be" and powerbrokers in private industry and government. which are shadowy but which control the "levers of power".
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2nd book review by jeanne bramhall. on the book Transparent Conspiracy by Michael D. Morrissey. he believes that the CIA intentionally does not fully cover up its conspiracies such as with JFK and 911 using so-called "white" propaganda that mixes the truth. thereby a mechanism to intentionally discourage people from whistleblowing who are in power, aware, in a position to do something, and/or on the fringes of the conspiracy.*
Specifically he argues there is major value (from the government point of view) in disclosing a limited amount of information concerning government culpability in atrocities such as the JFK assassination and 911. He bases his view on something he calls “Transparency Theory” – thus his title The Transparent Conspiracy. He says the CIA has long recognized that “telling part of the truth is the best way to lie.” They even have a term for it: “white propaganda.” Morrissey argues that for the government to brazenly commit criminal acts can be quite effective in demoralizing and alienating the tuned-in segment of the population that fully comprehends the corrupt nature of our government institutions.
He then lays out the hypothetical question: if the reality of the 911 conspiracy were widely accepted by the American public, would they be capable of doing anything about it? Morrissey believes that at this point in history they would be powerless (that they lack the power to bring the culprits to trial or even impeach them). Which he contends is a powerful basis for demoralization and alienation.
He then lays out the hypothetical question: if the reality of the 911 conspiracy were widely accepted by the American public, would they be capable of doing anything about it? Morrissey believes that at this point in history they would be powerless (that they lack the power to bring the culprits to trial or even impeach them). Which he contends is a powerful basis for demoralization and alienation.
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next I include a famous 2008 essay by prof peter dale scott, a very highly respected professor and historian of what he refers to as "deep events" and "deep politics". he regard the JFK assassination and 911 as similar "deep events" that can only be understood in this context-- as manifestations of the secret/shadow government/power system of the US.*
I strongly agree with his formulation.
in the essay he briefly questions at the end if what he calls "internet politics" can force the political apparatus into a confrontation over these key issues. in the title he refers to the "hope of internet politics" but did not develop the idea in the essay.
I have developed some of this theme further on my own blog writing. I do believe there is a new phenomenon of "internet politics" but that it is nascent, undeveloped, and therefore weak. we are in the early days and I believe it could grow in power, gradually over time. it will require a further, more intense schism with the MSM but which glimmers of this are being now seen. [eg the massive confrontation over the Murdoch empire that happened last summer].
and arguably Internet Politics is increasing in intensity with the occupy wall street protests.
I dont know if Talbot or Stone will say anything about 911 but I sure hope that the topic comes up and the audience at least asks them about it. in my opinion 911 makes the JFK assassination look like childs play.*
this aint your grandfathers conspiracy theory.
and lets see if anyone santa monica takes the red pill.
Salon event with Oliver Stone - Emily Holleman - Open Salon
American Spring: Exploring Untold History with Oliver Stone
Congress Admits Lee Harvey Oswald Didn't Act Alone - Rw005g - Open Salon
A Very Disturbing Book - old new lefty - Open Salon
They Want Us to Know: On Conspiracies and Cover-ups - Dr Stuart Jeanne Bramhall - Open Salon
9/11, Deep State Violence and the Hope of Internet Politics by Prof. Peter Dale Scott
Brothers: The Hidden History of the Kennedy Years - David Talbot - Books - Review - New York Times
Amazon.com: Brothers: The Hidden History of the Kennedy Years (9780743269186): David Talbot: Books
American Spring: Exploring Untold History with Oliver Stone
Congress Admits Lee Harvey Oswald Didn't Act Alone - Rw005g - Open Salon
A Very Disturbing Book - old new lefty - Open Salon
They Want Us to Know: On Conspiracies and Cover-ups - Dr Stuart Jeanne Bramhall - Open Salon
9/11, Deep State Violence and the Hope of Internet Politics by Prof. Peter Dale Scott
Brothers: The Hidden History of the Kennedy Years - David Talbot - Books - Review - New York Times
Amazon.com: Brothers: The Hidden History of the Kennedy Years (9780743269186): David Talbot: Books
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Comments
The JFK Assassination: Defending the Gangster State
http://www.michaelparenti.org/JFKAssassination.html
SF-- yeah I dont think stone is much of a real hardcore conspiracy dude, but I think his movie shows he's open to alternative interpretations.
rereading the open salon invitation, which I just added, says that he's working on a new tv show. "The Untold History of the United States”. which has some potential eh?
I havent watched conspiracy theory by Ventura at all-- is that still on tv? amazing. have you watched it? I plugged it a long time ago on my blog but havent had a chance to watch it much.
I think that anyone who wants to reach some conclusion other than the standard one about JFK's murder should at least read the Vincent Bugliosi book that came out a few years ago. Bugliosi supports the Oswald-did-it-alone thesis, and he is pretty convincing, more so than anyone else who came to the same conclusion. It is a big, thick book, takes a long time to read, and is heavy as hell. Don't drop it on your chihuahua.
With government disinformation programs, there's a deliberate policy of mixing real revelations with bogus information, thus making it impossible to comb out reality. There's also an attempt to inject totally discreditable witnesses or "experts" into a field like JFK or UFOs to cast doubt on anyone seriously pursuing the truth in that area.
The homocidal chauffeur would be in my opinion, a disreputable piece of evidence.
I will say, that if you read the Douglass book, you will have to revise everything you know about the JFK assassination.
"If the wild assertions in Oliver Stone's movie are taken at face value, Americans will have to accept the idea that most of the nation's major institutions conspired together and carried out Kennedy's murder. In an era when mistrust of government and loss of confidence in institutions--the press not the least--are widespread and virulent, such a suggestion seems a dubious public service. "
I agree this is a remarkable, revealing quote. he jumps to the impossibility of a concept based on the conclusions it would lead to, a sort of reverse-engineered non-proof or non-rebuttal. its bizarrely prescient after 2 decades of following govt malfeasance such as-- lewinsky affair, 911 false flag, iraq war with fake WMD, patriot act, govt sponsored torture, NSA domestic wiretapping, 2008 crash/bailout, afghanistan [now US's longest war ever, surpassing vietnam], tea party, occupy party....
but parenti has a nice summary at the end of the real motive, the real public service: "Their struggle to arrive at the truth is not impelled by a love of conspiracies but by a concern for the political and historic importance of the case. They seek the truth no matter how dirty it might be. That process of confronting the machinations of the national security state is not a conspiracy hobby. It is an essential part of the struggle for democracy."
"The Secret Service took possession of the presidential limousine, ignored reports in the St. Louis Post-Dispatch (12/1/63) that there was a bullet hole in the windshield, and rejected all requests to inspect the vehicle. We are asked to believe that the inside of limousine, a trove of physical evidence, was then quickly torn out and rebuilt, with no thought of covering up anything. "
this reminds me of the 911 cleanup efforts where, under military authority, thousands of tons of steel were quickly sent away to china. which again makes me feel that the Shadow Govt scaled up the kennedy assassination operational approaches/techniques to several orders of magnitude larger with the 911 *demolition*....
Stone, by the way, helped to further destroy the reputation of a good man, Clay Shaw, with his despicable movie. He deserves nothing but rebuke.
And Salon honouring this fake, who also has voiced Holocaust-denial statements, as well as anti-Semitic ones, is disgusting.
Jim Marrs & Alex Jones: Debunking Bugliosi's No Conspiracy Claim Behind JFK Assassination
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZ9clQ-QA4k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFpPwg32das
Funeral Home Director Paul Grudy "Agents" fingerprinted Oswald corpse
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2W_-ID8RMI
http://saintjohnhunt.com/index.html
http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2007/04/who_killed_jfk_/
Considering where this country has gone since Kennedy's death (mainly down the tiolet) it is difficult for me to believe Oswald acted alone. JFK's murder smells like a coup d'etat to me, and if 1% of Stone's film or the info on the internet is true, then we are in big trouble.
JG great you found this post, I was thinking of IMing you after I posted. re the rolling stone interview-- found an online copy, it is very interesting writing. it leaves me with some basic questions, but I dont think anything in the interview is immediately disprovable. hunts son paints a *plausible* picture. I suspect however that Hunt's father may not even have known who as at the top of the food chain as far as handing out the orders-- its his own plausible guessing probably outside of his local/direct experience.
for those who think LBJ was the big kahuna, as is asserted in this scenario... what was the motive? I seem to recall another highly researched book coming out recently that asserted LBJ was at the top....was it douglass? not sure....
oliver was a bit uncomfortable it seems from the bright lights and he seemed a little rambling at times.
many of the audience were occupy LA members and they asked about the new defense authorization bill. both talbot/oliver had not heard of it. I dont think it was mentioned that this bill gives the executive authority to imprison without trial americans accused of terrorism.
the show was more interview style than it was a debate. (I thought it was going to be the latter but was ok with the former)
overall a worthwhile viewing but apparently an obscure show and not well publicized or appealing so far. at the time I watched it, it had only 49 views. hope to hear of anyone elses reaction and Im rather surprised & a little disappointed, it seems maybe nobody else has blogged about it yet on open salon, and maybe nobody writing here went to the mtg.