At some level, I've known since before my oldest son was born that this moment would come. But when it did, it took me utterly and completely off guard. I was driving a car full of boys home from a soccer tournament last week when my 9-year-old son piped up from the back,
"Hey mom! I've got a funny joke. I'll ask you a question and you say, 'Ketchup and rubber buns'". "I've heard this one," chuckled my 12-year-old son. Snickers all around from the soccer players. Apparently, I was the only one who didn't know what was coming next.
"What did you have for breakfast?" "Oatmeal and ketchup and rubber buns."
"No! Mom! Just say ketchup and rubber buns."
"What did you have for breakfast?" "Ketchup and rubber buns."
"What did you have for lunch?" "What did you have for dinner?" Etc. etc. And then we get to the punchline:
"What do you do when you see a hot chick? You catch up and rub her buns!" Peals of laughter from the boys.
To my very great credit, I did not run the station wagon off the road and into the ditch. I kept driving - silent, hands gripping the wheel, looking straight ahead. It was a perfect autumn day. The sky was brilliant blue and the afternoon sun was catching the full color of the orange and yellow leaves on the trees along the highway. It was a beautiful, perfect day but inside I was angry. I was mortified. I was disappointed. I was desperately struggling to think of what I should say.
Every once in a while, though, it is helpful to have gone to law school. "I don't think that joke is funny. You know, if you actually ran after a woman and touched her in an offensive way like that, it would be called "assault and battery". It is a crime. You could be arrested."
"You could be arrested for THAT?" "Yes. Plus, the woman could also sue you."
Silence descends.
"Also, I've actually had that happen to me. How do you think it feels to have a stranger grab your butt?"
"WHAT? That actually happened to YOU?"
"Sure. More than once. Usually at parties."
"That's kind of making me feel sick," said the 12-year-old.
More silence.
The 9-year-old said thoughtfully: "I remember you saying that you didn't like running past construction sites because the construction workers whistled and yelled things at you."
I didn't remember telling them that, but it's true. When I was a teenager, I used to go way off my normal running routes just to avoid running past a construction site. Good, they were listening.
"So what are you going to say the next time you hear someone tell a joke like that?" "Stop, Mom! We get it, ok?"
Teachable moment - ended. I decided just to leave it there - for now. These are intelligent boys, good kids who love and respect their mom and their sister, their grandmothers, their female friends and teachers. But they, like other young Americans, are deeply impacted by the culture that they live in. Children are exposed to an estimated 16,000 images every day. They are powerfully influenced by their peers (I know they didn't hear THAT joke at home). How can that not impact the way that they view girls and women? And isn't it only going to get worse as they move through middle and high school?
The Ketchup Joke was a call to action for me. I need to do more to raise these boys to recognize the problem and, hopefully one day, to speak up when they hear someone tell a sexist joke. Thankfully, there are a lot of resources out there - research, organizations, websites. The Advocates for Human Rights has developed a Challenge the Media workshop and resource list. And I know that other parents have successfully managed to raise their sons not to be total jerks, but to be men who respect and treat women as equals.
I'll report back periodically on what I have found. In the meantime, I would welcome hearing about what others have learned. But first, I've got a date with my sons. We are going to see Miss Representation.
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I have a feeling your boys will be fine.
It's when Dad laughs at a joke like that and says, "Good one, Son." or worse, is the one telling it, that's when I'd worry about those stupid jokes really sinking in... (we have that issue with a relative and his son...)
I love how you set them straight. Go Mom. : )
Wait for the day when these boys will realize that worrying about sexism will not benefit them in the least.
And, for Pete's sake, don't send them to an all-boys high school.
But even a nine-year old knows that going up to a stranger on the street and grabbing them anywhere is deranged. It must have been a very weird moment for the boys in the van. This is why boys need fathers.
When you take the sexist out of the pig, you often just get the pig. Raise gentlemen and you'll have better men and happier women too.
It's early here and I'm not quite awake.
I will note at that age, the jokes I heard included elaborate shaggy dog stories where for some reason a penis got accidentally chopped off and mistaken for a sausage. There was never any gore. The narrative followed the penis and once it was severed from its owner, the man was out of the story.
There were several quite different scenarios, but the whole point was the chorus of Eww, gross and giggles which followed the punch line (and he or she put ketchup on it and ate it). Not surprisingly, my husband, who grew up on town over from me, never heard such jokes. I guess the boys didn't tell them to each other. Maybe because they wouldn't as blithely leave the neutered man in oblivion.
They are young children trying to get a rise out of their mother, the sexist jerk.
Your buttons are going to be pushed for the rest of their childhood.
The intricacies of gender and sexism thoroughly inform our societies - and both good and evil are thoroughly intertwined in our cultures. There is no simple answer, program, curriculum, television documentary or blog entry that can do the trick... Thank you for contributing something from your life to this renovation project. It may not be "The Answer" or a "Silver Bullet", but it is still Good...very good to my mind. Thanks...we'll anticipate more from you!
It was a JOKE! you made it way too serious. You might have laughed, it was funny, and simply asked them what the girls think of the joke. They will certainly admit they never tell such jokes to the girls. Then you ask why not. The final advice you give is that a joke is when everyone laughs, otherwise it's just mean. Then you tell a joke anyone can appreicate, like the duck-grape joke.
You made it all about sexism and disrespect for women. Your nine year old doesn't thiink that way. The only think he learned is not to tell Mom anymore jokes.
Don't know the "Got any Grapes" joke. It even has a song now.
A duck walks into a bar and asks, "Got any grapes?"
The bartender, confused, tells the duck that no, his bar doesn't serve grapes. The duck thanks him and leaves.
The next day, the duck returns and says, "Got any grapes?"
Again, the bartender tells him that, no, the bar does not serve grapes, has never served grapes, and, furthermore, will never serve grapes. The duck, a little ruffled, thanks him and leaves.
The next day, the duck returns, but before he can say anything, the bartender begins to yell: "Listen, duck! This is a bar! We do not serve grapes! If you ever ask for grapes again, I will nail your stupid duck beak to the bar!"
The duck is silent for a moment, and then asks, "Got any nails?"
Confused, the bartender says no.
"Good!" says the duck. "Got any grapes?"
So the other day I saw my 10 year old daughter staring at herself in the mirror and talking on the phone. It made her late for the bus stop and I had to drive her to school. On the ride over, I thought about all the women who had fleeced me for fancy dinners. I told my daughter that if she didn't work harder, she'd probably have to drop out of school and enter a life of forced prostitution. By the way, I have a fancy MBA so I know how the free market works (aren't I awesome!). Then I congratulated myself for being such a good parent. The End.
"Why did the chicken cross the road?
To get to the other side."
This joke also raises various moral and legal issues. First, one is concerned for the welfare of the chicken. This includes the possibility that the chicken might be injured or killed while crossing the road. In addition, the chicken might be homeless, since he or she has no business being near the road to begin with, or that the chicken's owner has failed to provide for the safety of the chicken. In any case it is clear that the Department of Animal Welfare needs to be contacted.
And then there is the legal issue of whether the chicken is crossing the road at an appropriate crosswalk. If this area is a common chicken-crossing, then perhaps the Public Works Department should install appropriate signage.
And so on.
congratulations on instilling in them the FEMALE pov. now ask your husband what HE thinks.
the counterPOV is that yes, its normal healthy behavior for boys to be interested in girls, their bodies, and some form of pursuing them if they're interested.
a discussion of a "healthy pursuit" might be more in order.
lets not forget-- IT WAS A JOKE. the kids understand inherently, I would argue, the *inappropriateness* of the named behavior-- "catch up and rub her buns". thats the POINT of the joke. it would seem only the ADULT did not understand the actual joke.
the whole topic does however show how politically charged humor is. comedians know this. your implicit goal of a perfect joke that make everyone laugh is probably impossible and most comedians would agree with that. most jokes are going to tend to alienate certain small segments of the audience. johnny carson once said, "comedy is cruel"..... so I admit you have captured some insight into the nature of comedy here. but gender is just one of the common targets, there are a bazillion others.... I bet there are entire collections of non-PC jokes. try reading one sometime if you want to really get your panties in a knot!
Excellent article! It is funny yet sad how common it is to tell sexist as well as racist jokes these days. I remember going through all those blond jokes and hated them. I agree that things need to change. Fortunately my son is still young and relatively innocent. Yet these are our children's formative years which will lead to their future beliefs and ideals. I look forward on reading how you handle this topic.
Thanks also for the type on this site! It is fabulous and I just created an account.
Nicole
Obviously these boys are not going to go up to another women and "touch her buns". YES, we all realize this is true. We're not morons here. But why do think sexism exists?? It's the subconscious messages that men getting from the media and pop culture and from their peers. NO, they will not actually go touch a girl's butt after hearing this joke. But it does subconsciously push them more towards sexism, and more towards seeing women's rights as something to be laughed at and something that is no big deal. Guess what, men? It is a big deal. This our lives we're talking about here.
It is not just one single joke that pushes men towards having a sexist mindset. It is the collection of ALL the jokes over the years, of all the sexist male friends they have, of all the times they have watched a women be laughed at for trying to stick up for herself. The only way to battle this problem is to battle every instance of these situations that we see. That means not allowing ANY jokes of this nature, and to teach young men to have a little RESPECT for everything that women have ever had to deal with. For everything we've gone through. For being harassed, molested, raped, for being paid less for doing the same job as men, etc.
Yes, there are some girls who are vain/obsessed with images. This is also because of the media/pop culture/peers, because some girls are subconsciously taught that their purpose in life is to look pretty and to appeal to men. This is another issue to be battled, and I'm sure no one would argue against that. But both issues are important. And the only way to battle these huge issues is to SPEAK UP, as this mother did, against the small instances. Don't let an instance pass, no matter how "small" or how much of a "joke" it may seem like. And fathers, this goes to you too! If you see your daughter obsessing over how she looks, speak up! Take a stand. And understand why mothers should do the same when their sons make a sexist joke.
The easy, sleazy way to mask the knife blade inside any nasty comment is to whine: "It's just a joke!" Yeah, right. A joke is...funny! A joke....makes everyone in the room laugh, not just the children or the men or the women.
Boys grow up to become whatever their parents (and the larger culture) rewards them for -- as girls do as well. Which is why so many women are terrified (as you've done here. Yay!) to speak out clearly and intelligently and calmly instead of giggling and keeping their mouths "politely" shut. Because, as the comments here (typically OS) make plain -- if you take a stand you will be pilloried and mocked for it.
Your boys will continue to tell you jokes. You will continue to figure out how to handle the creepy ones.
Kids will be kids, some will be jerks, blah blah blah. You're giving your kid a good upbringing, training him, modeling for him. He'll play with things like that but as long as you keep training and modeling and raising, he won't internalize it.
I had the best tool of all - two older sisters who he knew would have smacked the snot out of him without hesitation if he had actually behaved that way. Or mocked him mercilessly. And I would have had them car pool him and his friends for awhile after that joke. (In reality they never hit him nor were they allowed or encouraged to.)
Once I bought a little knife at a very good price and left it in its packaging. The boy took it to school. I questioned him. He said, "I'm going to leave it in the car but - as a high school boy I'm obligated to show this off to my friends." The label: boner. He's a good man now.
At this rate, it's not going to be long before they hate your guts and spend the rest of their lives teaching whatever females they meet that they are different from them. this is how wimps and "macho" males are trained.
My advice if there is no male in the home with balls (totally unwanted, I'm sure) get a good therapist--a male therapist.
it doesn't help OWS
Lighten up.
These boys of yours. They will be able to figure it out without mom cramming down a daily agenda of political correctness.
They have to live in the real world.
They will live in the real world.
My opinion: They will never again tell you a dirty joke. That they know.
However, they will probably find some funny and share with friends.
And so fucking what?
They will still be fine.
And, as much as I am tempted to say something negative about your parenting skills, I expect they will be really great men.
The common thread that I saw run through these comments was that my boys are going to be just fine. That is my gut feeling, and it is reassuring to hear it from so many diverse viewpoints. Since this post was published, my sons have had several good discussions with my husband and me. My sons have read all the comments (the 9 year old was even able to count the time towards his weekly reading goals). We try to operate as transparently as possible in our family. As my 12 year old pointed out, “Dude! We subscribe to the blog. We read it before anyone else!”
Since I wrote this last week, I have heard from people all over the country about the experiences that they have had with being touched inappropriately in school, in bars or at parties, in the workplace. If you have not experienced that feeling – that feeling of burning shame and embarrassment – I hope that you never do. I know I can’t change the society that we live in. I can’t even protect my 6 year old daughter from experiencing what I have. But I feel that I have a duty to talk to my sons, who I love dearly, about this.
When my husband and I decided to have children, we also made the decision to raise them to be the best possible men and women that they could be. This is not the first - or the last – challenge that we will have on that road. Like most other parents, we are just doing the best that we can. Your advice and experience is appreciated.
Thank you for reading. I wish you all the very best.