Rodney Roe's Blog

Still Trying to Make Sense of It All

Rodney Roe

Rodney Roe
Location
Clayton, Georgia, USA
Birthday
November 22
Bio
I currently place myself among the curmudgeons of the world. Always thinking about why things are, and how they may be better, I tend to rant at times, but mostly I just look for a reasoned discourse. I have previously worked as a cotton scout, grocery bag boy, cannery worker, and am a physician. I am married, have two daughters and four granddaughters. I retired due to vision loss in 2005 after a 30 year career as a hospital pathologist. Fortunate to have a wide range of interests, life following retirement has been good.

MY RECENT POSTS

APRIL 8, 2012 6:41AM

The Etymologist's Corner: Lying in a Mare's Nest

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Warning: if you are not fascinated with words, if your family has not given you a dictionary of Indo-European roots as a Christmas present, you may want to read something else.

The etymology of etymology:

etymology Description: Look up etymology at Dictionary.com

late 14c., ethimolegia "facts of the origin and development of a word," from O.Fr. et(h)imologie (14c., Mod.Fr. étymologie), from L. etymologia, from Gk. etymologia, properly "study of the true sense (of a word)," from etymon "true sense" (neut. of etymos "true, real, actual," related to eteos "true") + -logia "study of, a speaking of" (see -logy). In classical times, of meanings; later, of histories. Latinized by Cicero as veriloquium. As a branch of linguistic science, from 1640s. Related: Etymological; etymologically.

From The Online Etymology Dictionary.

I’ve met one etymologist in my life.  I took a survey of western literature that substituted for a philosophy class under her.  I only found out her background when I misspelled “guardian” by switching the “u” and “a” on a Blue Book exam.  She wrote the etymology of the word in the margin and pointed out the connection to words like warden and warranty.  Fascinating!  Here was one of those people who actually write that little blurb that goes in a Webster’s Unabridged Dictionary entry.

It’s interesting that the form of the word etymology has changed little from the Greek origin while its usage has changed from a study of meaning to one of history.

Etymology is a sort of archeology of words.  Having written this I’m almost overwhelmed by an urge to go look up the origins of archeology.

Speaking of overwhelm, have you heard anyone say, “I was underwhelmed?”  Underwhelmed is used in the context of unimpressed.  Here is why it makes no etymological sense.

Overwhelm is what I like to call an orphan word.  It lives, but its parent whelm is dead, no longer in use. 

overwhelm Description: Look up overwhelm at Dictionary.com

early 14c., "to turn upside down, to overthrow," from over + M.E. whelmen "to turn upside down" (see whelm). Meaning "to submerge completely" is mid-15c. Perhaps the connecting notion is a boat, etc., washed over, and overset, by a big wave. Figurative sense of "to bring to ruin" is attested from 1520s. Related: Overwhelming; overwhelmingly.  From the online etymology dictionary.

The use of underwhelm appeared in 1956 as a facetious comment.  It is currently considered slang.

My father used to use the term mare’s nest that was a puzzle to me.  It would be used to describe a terribly messy place.  Mare’s sleep in stalls not nests.  A few years ago the search began for the root of this form.  I started with nightmare, imagining that the mare might have the same root.  It seems that they do.

Nightmare is from night, straightforward, and mare, not.  Mare is an Old English form for a succubus, an evil spirit that comes in your sleep, lying on top of you and suffocating you.  It ultimately derives from the Indo-European root mer, to do harm, which is also the root of murder.

(The word nightmare makes its appearance c.1300 in the St. Michael (Laud) manuscript:

Þe luþere gostes...deriez men in heore slep...And ofte huy ouer-liggez, and men cleopiet þe niȝt-mare.
(The wicked spirits...injured men in their sleep...And often lay on top of men, and men called them the nightmare.)
From wordorigins.org.)

 There are cognates of mare in other languages. My great grandfather was Austrian.  Perhaps “mare’s nest” was a transliteration of some word in German. Maybe it’s an old English term forgotten everywhere except in my family.  I’ve never heard anyone else say mare’s nest, but I’m guessing that it meant a goblin’s lair.

Other ideas are welcome, as well as news of this term in the speech of other families.

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Comments

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It will be interesting to see how much interest there is in word origins. I've noticed that some dictionaries no longer include the derivation of the word in their entries.
Great! Keeper!
I thought of Hugs!
O, I meant the bugs!
`
at the farm a intern . . .
was a bug expert
and studied stink bugs
`
I get great words mixed up.
I get confused most days.
Forgive me. Hexapoda!
That's an adult insect.
I'll save for instruction,
reproof, correction, or:
a constructive lesson in:
`
Words
Root
Meaning
Edification
`
cc
`
Have a great day.
Thanks
Rodney Roe.
Great Smile.
No rob You.
Keep Smiles.
`
P.S.
I have a baby blue hat like you.
The beak's frayed. Hat do read:
`
Life's Good
`
Honest . . .
It's a Spring hat.
I'm wear the hat.
Ya Mad Hatter?
No!
You smile nice.
The problem with the "true sense of the word" is the problem of the root meaning of "true", from the OE treowe and G treu, which originally had a primary meaning of "legitimate" identifying bloodlines of heirs so that inheritance of property and titles could be properly awarded. Money talks and BS walks... or truth is what you make it. Perhaps the "true" meaning of the mare's nest is best illustrated by the current Republican Presidential Primary.
'The logical explanation is that "mare's nest" describes a discovery that turns out to be illusory because mares don't make nests at all. The Oxford English Dictionary says "horse's nest" is recorded earlier than "mare's nest." '

Interesting pursuit, Rodney. I'm a fan of Online Etymology Dictionary and went off on my own tangential approach suggesting that perhaps the phrase is familial of regionally colloquial-- finally the venerable 'ordinary' Google brought up 'Phrase Finder' and BINGO was the name of the dog!
One more bookmark....
Thanks to J.P.Hart for introducing me to phrases.org.uk. As he points out mare's nest has two meanings and the "illusory" meaning is much older (16th century) and the "muddle" meaning is 19th century. It seems that my thought that the origin might mean "goblin's nest" was a mare's nest; something that was not real.

jmac1949 I think you're onto something.

Art James, as usual, my head is spinning too fast to stand up after reading your poem. I'm still wondering if your think this post stinks.
Huh? Stinks? no! so Fragrant!
Your Post smells like Wisteria!
`
If I was meandering in a city?
I smell you & purple Wisteria.
No crime, rush-hour Traffic,
Mosquitoes, bigotry, Slims,
Cacti plants that scratch, nor:
Lier politico's, nasty creeps,
. . .
You Know?
Just beautiful Women who smile.
I need to rush to my P.U. Truck.
It seems Peculiar? No. No Lies.
I sit in my P.U. to hear`Handel.
Handel do 'de Oratorio`Messiah.
I remember it animated `Methinks.
My grey P.U. no do stink too`Awful.
Later . . .
Huh? Stinks? no! so Fragrant!
Your Post smells like Wisteria!
`
If I was meandering in a city?
I smell you & purple Wisteria.
No crime, rush-hour Traffic,
Mosquitoes, bigotry, Slims,
Cacti plants that scratch, nor:
Lier politico's, nasty creeps,
. . .
You Know?
Just beautiful Women who smile.
I need to rush to my P.U. Truck.
It seems Peculiar? No. No Lies.
I sit in my P.U. to hear`Handel.
Handel do 'de Oratorio`Messiah.
I remember it animated `Methinks.
My grey P.U. no do stink too`Awful.
Later . . .
&
&
I guess the Salon editor is stinky? huh?
2 X's
Huh? Stinks? no! so Fragrant!
Your Post smells like Wisteria!
`
If I was meandering in a city?
I smell you & purple Wisteria.
No crime, rush-hour Traffic,
Mosquitoes, bigotry, Slims,
Cacti plants that scratch, nor:
Lier politico's, nasty creeps,
. . .
You Know?
Just beautiful Women who smile.
I need to rush to my P.U. Truck.
It seems Peculiar? No. No Lies.
I sit in my P.U. to hear`Handel.
Handel do 'de Oratorio`Messiah.
I remember it animated `Methinks.
My grey P.U. no do stink too`Awful.
Later . . .
&
&
I guess the Salon editor is stinky? huh?
2 X's
&
&
&
3 X's
okay
gads
`
Huh? Stinks? no! so Fragrant!
Your Post smells like Wisteria!
`
If I was meandering in a city?
I smell you & purple Wisteria.
No crime, rush-hour Traffic,
Mosquitoes, bigotry, Slims,
Cacti plants that scratch, nor:
Lier politico's, nasty creeps,
. . .
You Know?
Just beautiful Women who smile.
I need to rush to my P.U. Truck.
It seems Peculiar? No. No Lies.
I sit in my P.U. to hear`Handel.
Handel do 'de Oratorio`Messiah.
I remember it animated `Methinks.
My grey P.U. no do stink too`Awful.
Later . . .
&
&
I guess the Salon editor is stinky? huh?
2 X's
&
&
&
3 X's
okay
gads
`
Kerry?
What?
You
Hold
Belly
Button
In? huh?
~!~ huh!
Huh? Stinks? no! so Fragrant!
Your Post smells like Wisteria!
`
If I was meandering in a city?
I smell you & purple Wisteria.
No crime, rush-hour Traffic,
Mosquitoes, bigotry, Slims,
Cacti plants that scratch, nor:
Lier politico's, nasty creeps,
. . .
You Know?
Just beautiful Women who smile.
I need to rush to my P.U. Truck.
It seems Peculiar? No. No Lies.
I sit in my P.U. to hear`Handel.
Handel do 'de Oratorio`Messiah.
I remember it animated `Methinks.
My grey P.U. no do stink too`Awful.
Later . . .
&
&
I guess the Salon editor is stinky? huh?
2 X's
&
&
&
3 X's
okay
gads
`
Kerry?
What?
You
Hold
Belly
Button
In? huh?
~!~ huh!
&&&&?
Oh, so
wastrel!