Deaf only by way of ignorant feeling--but it's all the same, really.
I feel for you.
I've been there--hell, I'm there today!
~R~

PW-

I think we're all there in our own unique ways

Say what???? I hear ya, bubba, tho sometimes I have truble hearing my own voice. Seems like a lot of folks on OS are in the pits today. Maybe something's in the air. Where's Phil Collins when we need him?

Clark-

Phil Collins? Uh, no thanks...Give me some good old Sisters of Mercy LOL

What now?

Just kidding, it was a nice bit of poetry. I think a lot of people can identify with that feeling. Especially in today's world.

Doug-

I suspect everyone can. I'm just feeling antsy today

Huh?
Did you say something?)

Thumbs-

THWAP!!!!

It would seem that neither of us is being confined, that's good and so is your poem.

Bob-

Not confined for the moment, except my voice, which no one seems to be listening to anyway

Hey, you don't need to shout for my sake, Studman - I hear ya. I feel antsy too, but too tired to even talk or write about it. Missed you, pal. HugZ. Rated.

FusunA-

Been missing you too ~HUGS~ And I think I'm just generally shouting at the world today. No one specific, maybe kind of a primal scream sort of thing

Ry, shout out. It's your right. If you want to be heard ( you know where this is coming from....:-) ) make a statement that can be read and heard outside of OS. Make some calls and say exactly how you feel the same way you have expressed yourself here. You will garner love and support here on OS hon but you won't garner an "active" audience that will go out in the streets and yell for you unless they are already involved in the disabled community, as a peer or otherwise You are adocating for yourself, what you feel strongly about and what makes you uncomfortable. Without a group of "advocates" that support your position how will you get your message across? I know of only one way and that is for the ears of those that can make a change happen..hear you.xxxooo ~r

Eyes-

I guess, I figured that if I said what I have to say loud enough and persistent enough here, that some of it would stick with others, and they could be my feet and legs to carry my voice to the outside world. I'm a lone voice, but if I change one mind, get one person to look at life a bit differently, then they can turn my message into a legacy. It's how all stories, fables, myths and lessons and morals started, with a single voice who told a story that inspired others to tell the story to others who spread the messages worldwide.

Just call me the Oracle at Cleveland LMAO

Keep on shouting my man, I can here you! It's hard through all the static and bullshit that goes on, but I hear you.

Scanner-

I'm gonna start needing some....uh...green...lozenges pretty soon, ya know? :-D

Stud, that could happen. But...what you have to understand is that you are now seeking others to advocate for you...which...is the same as what the Mom's and Dad's are tying to do for their kids. There are two voices Ry. If there is a youngster that is to small to understand and a parent feels the need to defend him/her based on something that happened to another child so a particular situation doesn't occur again, I find that to be a positive step. We talked about speaking for ourselves and not allowing others to speak for us. Are these parents exposing their kids that may have yet to get it, yes. Is that being self righteous, self-serving on the part of the parent? I don't think it is If it involved the well being and present or future means in which my child would be treated, I don't think so. Do parents and advocates not know what we may want or desire to be said? Some perhaps, yet is that important in the scheme of things if they feel their voice is strong enough to make a difference? No...if my child was 3 years old and came home and said 'Mom, the kids are calling me a retard because I of my wrist crutches" and this continued, you can bet no matter what his age, I'd be doing something to assure this did not happen to my child or any other child. Sweetie, I speak for you and my seniors each and every day and will continue to do so. It's as important to me as it is to you. And you're right, some one has to do it. But that someone (s) will do so no matter what side of the fence you are sitting on. As much as you hate me saying it here...shut the F**k up and deal with it..I love you.

Eyes-

You'll just never get it...

I think maybe that's what keeps blogging so popular....everyone wanting to be heard.

Torman-

Oh, so very true!

What am I not getting...

Eyes-

Apparently you think it's acceptable for a parent to treat their 15-17 year old straight A student with a disability like a kindergarten child "who doesn't know any better", because that IS the effect of a parent saying "I am offended by this, so you (the child) should be too!"

I agree..if anyone has to right to be heard it's you..but it is a downer day..I agree with Paust..
rated with hugs and keep shouting someone will hear you.

I'd be happy to join you in a primal scream. >>

Excellent. Keep shouting and the message will be heard.
rated.

Linda-

Thanks :-)

Mypsyche-

AAAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHH!!! LOL

Mical-

We can hope! Cause sometimes that's all we got LOL

Ry that's not at all what I said. (And for those that may read my prior comment...Stud hate when I get mushy here so the FU deal with it was for the I love you .) I said if the child is young and has no voice in the matter than yes the parent should speak for them. If the disabled party is not in a coherent state where they can voice their opinion , yes the parent should speak for them. We are assuming that parents of 15- 18 years old had not discussed the circumstance with their kids. Stud, kids rely on their parents. You're older you know what you want, you've seen the worse of it all and you've developed your pride. My GF that was here on OS , Deidra,, got calls from her son with AIDS up to the age of 25 when he passed away seeking her guidance and voice to get him the help and support he needed. She did. She'd cared from him from the time he was a youngster and he didn't know any different. I'm not sure how that differs from me, or others that care about your concerns, having a voice for you.Perhaps these kids have been heard Ry. Maybe not as vocally as you but perhaps they have been heard. It doesn't have to be with words, you know your children. it can be looks, actions and reactions... I can't assume they have not let their parents know in some form that they want their help in voicing their concerns..

you said:

"We are assuming that parents of 15- 18 years old had not discussed the circumstance with their kids. Stud, kids rely on their parents."

EXACTLY. Why the ----- HAVENT a paent of a 15-18 year old child not discussed the circumstances with their kids?

They do so because they are "professional advocates", those who take it upon themselves to be the voice of an entire community, for their own selfish, ego stroking reasons that have more to do with a weakness within the parent than any shortcomings the child (of any age) may have. If the child is aware enough, and cognizant enough, they should be educated to the circumstances of the situation, and the consequences should be left up to them. But, often times, they are not, because of external forces that want to keep them suppressed, for the suppressor's benefit.

You said:

"I can't assume they have not let their parents know in some form that they want their help in voicing their concerns.."

I CAN and DO assume they have let their parents know they want their help, but the parents never bother to ask WHAT KIND OF HELP DO YOU WANT?, they assume that the help that they (the parent) would want is the same that the child would want. And often times, that is "don't offend me", well, okay, maybe the child would say the same thing, but the parent never bothers to ask the child what offends the child, and the child's attempts to say what does or does not offend them goes on deaf ears.

It's like I said to Jane in that post yesterday "advocacy is politis and vice versa", and in politics, the minority voice (the disabled child in this case) gets overlooked or actively ignored.

The same goes with the poor, the LGBT community, and every community. Unless you empower the people themselves, and ask them what they want and need to be empowered, nothing positive will ever come of it.

Seeing as this is first time we've not had a total mind meld let me just run this by you even though it's not solely parent/child related. Bear with me ok..some where her I am trying to make a point as well. By your standards I would imagine I would be a "professional" advocate Ry. My clients in my non-profit are all disabled and senior folks...you knew that. If some have concerns be it health care, nursing home care, physician care or otherwise I would be on the phone and writing letters to try to get them the help they wanted. Not all may have expressed the very same concern even though it would be beneficial to them. You may ask, why is it my decision to choose what is and isn't beneficial to those that did not vocalize the same concern? And you have every right to ask that. Because I've seen and witnessed every aspect of the lack of treatment and support for both seniors and the disabled. Am I am assuming the silent folks would not want better care...no. Do I hope that parents and caregivers speak to those they are caring for....you bet. Do I know if it happens or doesn't...no. Do I assume caregiver and parents do not ask what kind of help the disabled/senior wants..no. Will they all express what they want..no.

I know you are gearing yourself more towards the parental aspect of the fight for the rights of disabled children and adults and the lack of choice by the child/adult. I would love to see all children and adults that are capable of empowering themselves to speak up and fight to do so. Ry, It would be much more effective to have them at our sides willingly. Tell me how...

I have not yet been with a senior or disabled person that was not grateful for whatever I've done for them or with them. In some respects Ry, I feel like the parent. As we get older, yes, there is the pride that goes along with wanting to do it yourself and that's a good thing. That's the voice. Sadly, does that voice always work no matter where it comes from? No. Does the party involved know the best route to take to tackle a concern...not always. If we need to educate and empower where do we start Ry? I'd want nothing more than to see my clients work towards what would be beneficial to them if it was possible for them to do so. But without asking, as you are doing now, where do I being to let go of my help in order to allow them to become empowered?

We spoke the other day of a need you required and the lack of having help with that need. It bothered us both to know it wasn't provided. We both felt it should have been provided. You've empowered yourself to speak up and I know you did in this instance. Yet your voice was muted. Would help outside of the circumstance have been acceptable? Would you have been angry if I tried to speak up to seek the help for yourself and others in order to try to find a way to accommodate that need, should it occur, on a regular basis? And if that was possible for me to do so would it not benefit all those that found themselves in the same situation in the future whether they've experienced it now or not? Would that make me an interfering parental like person or just Dee who loves you and cares? Because I am not the parent yet I am advocating as a parent might should I walk away and allow you and others to handle it yourself? I'm not sure I could do that...

I do see your point Ry and I respect it because you are more than capable of doing exactly what you wish would be done. An aspect I greatly admire in you. I have to wonder, how long it would take for changes to take place if I were to step aside. Who would I be leaving behind.......

Well I be damned. Had I read you email to me prior to this post I'd have seen your perspective in a different light and continued there as expressed. Sorry toots. I would still like to see more advocating for seniors & disabled folks but I am now aware of what part of the advocating you were opposed to. Sorry toots. Oh yea..and to the rest of the readers...ditto for making you muddle though the dissertations. * note to Dee...check all emails prior to reading posts....

*though =through.

I hear you, Stud, I hear you. R

Clark had a point, above.
I know more than a few of us are feeling less than cheery today.
I wonder what that's all about? :-/

Clark is right...Can I switch my cherries to an apricot?

Thoth-

Sometimes I think you and I are just separated at birth, or formerly conjoined twins, or something, man LOL

PW-

I think there's a reason why The BoomTown Rats had a song called Why Dont I like Mondays! LOL

Eyes-

You can have apricots if I can have frozen bananas >:)

I hear you. xox

Robin-

Thanks XOX

coming through, loudly and clearly.

Geezer-

Thanks.