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Where's the Mojitos? I have the guac!

Oryoki Bowl

Oryoki Bowl
Birthday
February 03
Bio
Quaker buddhist, kinda quirky, loves cooking and knitting and movies. Dr Who fan, Scandinavian-aquarian and cat lover. Would love to be paid to travel around the world and write about local healing cultures. While eating and drinking and dancing. One day I will have a health cruise in the fjords.

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MARCH 19, 2012 2:28PM

The Goose, The Gander, and the Goslings

Rate: 9 Flag

All of use are someone else's children.  Even as adults, when we cross that mysterious border between being a child and being a grown up, we are still the children of our parents.  We are also still subject to their opinions as to how we should live and love.  Some of us go on to be parents or step parents, to another set of children, and somewhere get sandwiched into the ladder of parent/child/parent/child with all we must decide and take on for ourselves. 

There used to be a time when our parents were always our respected elders, our children always are obedient progeny.  There was also always a strong resistance to this current of parental authority when it came to ideas about freedom, personal choice, innovation, science and technology, religion, "god's plan", and what the book says.  

What's good for the goose, is good for the gander.  Well, it turns out, maybe not so much.  We know, for instance, that medically speaking, there is so much different between men and women biochemically, that this just is not true.   Once someone figured out that basing all medical protocols on the basis of a few studies performed on white men just was not useful or even ethical.  In the cry for equality, the answer is not just "be just like a white man and it will all work out for you."  And why should it? Even now, as we struggle with economic disparity, the cry is still "Be more like me, you have chosen wrong".  

When it comes to our children, we finally get our turn in deciding what will and won't happen.  First, we must remember (with our perfect recollection and clarity) what it felt like to be children of our own parents, and then decide based on what they did and didn't do that we liked and didn't like, what we will do.  Then we must include our spouse's family and their decision making tree.  Then we must balance the differences, and impose them on our young, incorporating new information (beating children may be satisfying but not very useful) and trying to remember which age old advice is worth hanging onto (a stitch in time saves nine).  

Now we have become a squabbling gaggle of geese.  This tower of Babel is not of different tongues by land- but different tongues of gender, color, sexual identity, religion and age.  What we think is good for our children may no longer be right, correct, or even helpful.  We make choices based on our own fears and limitations, and simultaneously judge others of their own missteps.  When do our children get to choose for themselves?  A lifetime of damage may be imposed before they get to legal age.  This could be from physical abuse, medical neglect, or educational gaps.  Some things cannot be well overcome in time, with self determination.  Particularly if you have been raised to have no sense of self determination at all. 

Staying in small, well defined groups of similar kind is the best way to stave off change, slow the hands of time, and perpetuate the past.  Call it tradition, or call it something else.  We cannot simultaneously keep all the things we like going, and change all the things we dislike.  Because there is another person, another party, another group, another family member that was somehow born to choose that which we cast off.  

One man's trash is another man's treasure.

Even for our own children, our beliefs in what they need to do well may conflict with their still unfolded future of what they need to do well.  It is in no parent's interest for their child to have a good, varied and satisfying sex life.  It is in the parent's interest that their child survive until adulthood, reproduce safely and often, and have the skills to maintain their own survival.  Now that our children are competing with us in the marketplace, suddenly we change the access points of freedom to choose.  We keep trying to legislate past ideals onto present day dilemmas- and they aren't working out so well because we are no longer in the same tribe.  

When do we get to decide for ourselves?   When do our parents stop making the call for what they believe over what we believe?  Who gets to decide what is in their best interest, or our own?  

Of course, we can always blame it on the irresponsible youth, the loose girls and the wild boys.      

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What a thoughtful examination of self determination. I always learn something here.
rated with love
Interesting idea, that decision-making tree, and quite apt, I think.

Just looking at my own weird family -- with its ancestral mix of Scots and Irish Celts; French Huguenots; English entrepreneurs and adventurers; soldiers, sailors and airmen and God only knows what else -- there was a huge diversity in attitude, opinion and belief that shaped me growing up.

Factor in that I, a lapsed Protestant, am married to a lapsed Catholic, and it all gets even broader-based, and more informative.

Long story short, I suppose I've cherry-picked what I deem to be crucial life values from all sources at my disposal, and it appears to work for me. I can't vouch that it would for anyone else.
Very thought-provoking. I'll have to read this more than once!
Who gets to decide, indeed. Lots to think about here.
"Staying in small, well defined groups of similar kind is the best way to stave off change"
And how did that work for us?
I have not been able to make choices for them since they were very young. They however continue to make choices for me.
HUGGGGGGGGGGGGGG
It sounds like someone may be having some problems with “their” child. No child belongs to anyone not even their parents but particularly now at this time and place. There are many walk ins, very old souls, come for the big showdown. I call it the Alice Cooper syndrome because he pointed it out when it all began:

Generation Landslide

Please clean the plates, dear.
The Lord above can see ya.
Don't you know people are starving in Korea?
Alcohol and razor blades and poison and needles,
Kindergarten people - they use 'em, the need 'em.
Over-indulging machines were their children.
There wasn't a way down on Earth to cool 'em,
'Cause they look just like humans at Kresges and Woolworths.
But decadent brains were at work to destroy.
Brats in battalions were ruling the streets,
Sayin' generation landslide closed the gap between 'em.
And I laugh to myself at the men and the ladies
Who never conceived of us billion dollar babies.
Militant mothers hiding in their basement
Using pots and pans as their shields and their helmets.
Molotov milk bottles heaved from pink high chairs,
While Mothers' Lib burns birth certificate papers.
Dad gets his allowance from his sonny, the dealer,
Who's pubic to the world but involved in high finance.
Sister's out 'til five doing banker's son's hours.
But she owns a Maserati that's a gift from his father.
Stopped at full speed at one hundred miles per hour.
The Colgate invisible shield finally got 'em.
And I laugh to myself at the men and the ladies
Who never conceived of us billion dollar babies.
I like this: "We keep trying to legislate past ideals onto present day dilemmas..." Everything changes, & when lawmakers try to ignore the changes & pretend that everything was better in 1956, then we have a problem. In some arenas, nostalgia isn't such a good thing.
Quite thoughtful. Agree with RomanticPoetess.
In my experience people often go to extremes. If their parents were too strict, than they may be too lenient. Parenthood is the most important and hard job in the world.
These are all great questions and the answers are always difficult to find. thanks for the keen POV"