Arthur, Ontario, Canada
May 22
I'm an old, short, fat, unsightly, grouchy, reformed troll with a bad attitude and a cricket bat. ---------------------------------------------------- I need to state clearly that English is not my first language. There are upwards of 600,000 words in the English language. In my native language there are a mere 11,000 and most of those are entire concepts (kind of like the theory of relativity) rather than words which translate individually. ----------------------------------------------------- Free advice: Don't.

MrsRaptor's Links
MAY 19, 2012 9:41PM

What makes a marriage?

Rate: 18 Flag

This is something I have thought a lot about recently -

Is it the permission slip obtained from the government? 

Is it found in the permissions to have sex granted through religious rites which are conducted? 

Is it the people involved?  

Is it all of those things?   

When I got married  we did not wander into the nearest government office and obtain a permission slip to do so - which I suppose means we are not "legally married."   Not being "legally married" does not prevent us from being married... it merely prevents us from taking advantage of the governmental benefits one acquires when one is "legally married."

We did not go searching for the nearest Jewish-Catholic-Buddhist-Protestant-Muslim-Shaman-High Priestess either...   We were united "Between Mother Earth and Father Sky" in the way our people have gotten married since before the arrival of the first European on the continent.  

Before "Christians" arrived to "civilize" us we were united between Mother Earth and Father Sky in the eyes of Wakan Tanka.  That is the way my husband and I chose to get married and we are just as married as someone who possesses a permission slip from the government.  You see, we know that marriage is much more than a piece of paper.   Marriage is much more than sex, much more than children, much more than feelings.  

Marriage is what happens when we remember there is more to "US" than there is to "ME"...   



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And for some of us marriage is a "you can't have it cuz you aren't as good as us" Holy Grail kinda thing = It ain't the pretty cup, it's the meaning.
Over the years, I have watched a lot of people get married and unmarried. I wonder, too, what that piece of paper means. It has ruined a lot of relationships that were great before they signed. I am waiting for the day that we don't need a piece of paper, that intent is what will count.
Wonderful post. I shared it with my daughter who is not married and neither is her sister. They have guys who love them and I love that love. My mom is worried the guys can leave anytime. Good I say. If that is what is necessary then they are always free to go and so are my daughters but in another way it is sad that they aren't married. I think it is because there isn't a real stable feeling with either fellow. Time will tell. Us instead of Me.
I know Amy and Julie... and it thoroughly disgusts me that there are people who are barred from obtaining that stupid permission slip simply because the person they love and want to marry is the same gender they are. It's annoying, it's disgusting and it's flat STUPID.

Phyllis... I don't need that piece of paper. We have made sure that all of our children are protected in the event of one of us meeting an untimely end. We have made sure that we are both protected in the event of the untimely demise of the other.

For me, it's the principle of the matter... or rather principles. It is STUPID that there is a segment of our society who is not treated equally under the law. It is also STUPID that anyone has to acquire a permission slip from the government to do anything. Even more STUPID is that we no longer see marriage as being something which is there as a protection for children but rather see children as possessions which can be shoved back and forth like so many chess pieces.
I'm with you all the way. Didn't mean to imply otherwise.
Permission slips always separate us from them. That's why they were invented. It's just like the folks on the train who want to make sure folks don't get on the train. That's why they stand by the door - to LET you on. I would rather walk. Hear, hear on this one! /R
Zanelle... "Us" and "we" not "me" and "I" because marriage, no matter the type, is the uniting of two individuals into one.
"Marriage is what happens when we remember there is more to "US" than there is to "ME"... "So true,MrsRaρtor.Rated!!!
That's so beautiful, just shared it with my boyfriend of four years. We both feel so too.
Some want the acknowledgment of the community of faith, some are married simply by their love- If the state has ahand in the process, it shoild only be in termd of a contract setting up a corporation, there should be no special benefits to a man/woman contract. Marriage is a state of being between those who love.
Oh really, HRdR? So you now believe that two gay men who love each other should be able to be married? That's a major change since you believe only religions are the only ones who should be allowed to confer "marriage". BTW, what about us atheists & agnostics that think organized religions are crap? Don't we get to be married then or do we need to kneel first???
I so agree. Unless you have the door bolted and hide the key, we all have the option to stay or leave. Government shouldn't have anything to do with marriage. But it's understandable, seeing how it's just another method to produce revenue. -R
Excellent piece.
And to Amy: We are going to Win This Fight.

A long time ago (1975), in a galaxy far far away, my chart at my OB/Gyn's office was filed under my husband's name. In 1979, when I wanted a bilateral tubal ligation, he had to sign a permission form. Sounds archaic now just like the ban on same sex marriage.
Nilesite, of course permission slips, regardless of the source of those slips, are meant to separate and is a means we allow because it is easier to exclude on the basis of something silly and superficial than it is to include on the basis of humanity.

Kalispera Stathi. Thank you.

Britney... it is not the permission slip which "makes" the relationship because a truly healthy relationship does not require permission from any but the participants.

Thanks Cathy, I prefer to call it "common sense." "Wisdom" makes me feel like an owl sitting on a tree branch somewhere and frankly I am afraid of heights. :)
HrdR... the state absolutely should NOT have a "hand" in it at all - it SHOULD be a PERSONAL matter between the participants which the state keeps their nose out of. Unfortunately, we live in a society where people feel the overwhelming need to poke their collective noses into things which are none of their business to start with - which causes all kinds of nasty side effects... such as legislating what gender an individual is required to marry.

Amy... marriage pre-dates all of the major religions on Earth today and no particular religion has a patent or trademark on use of the word. From my perspective a couple (regardless of gender) who lives together and builds a LIFE together (with or without children) is just as married as someone who went to the nearest government office and obtained that permission slip.

I'm weird though and we both know it. ;)

Willet, you hit the nail on the head... that permission slip IS another revenue stream as is the destruction of that permission slip (divorce).

Matt... do you really think so? I struggled with this one and it still seems a bit "choppy" to me.

Jon... YES we are. Sooner rather than later I suspect.

Becky... In 1993 I needed permission to have one...
Some profound thoughts here MrsRaptor - here and in the comments also.


I'm not intending to play word games with you- surely you acknowledge that what you feel/felt for your partner/spouse was of the heart and not the mind. "Religion" is a mind game, a game of symbolic logic. Spirit is a thing of intuition and feeling. Call it what you will- Love is not of the mind, it is of the spirit. Marry by your own intent, or have Richard Dawkins seal your union. it is NOT a thing to be sanctioned ( note again - Sanctus- sacred) by a secular government except as an incorporation by individuals. Separation of spirit and state.
I don't know what makes a marriage but I do know that coming home drunk with a hooker doesn't.
thirding Amy, seconding Julie.
I was astonished to find out how many legal strangers had something to do with or say about my legal marriage once that paper was signed.
Mrs, "'not being "legally married" does not prevent us from being married.."' Seconding that and your excellent thinking " Marriage is what happens when we remember there is more to "US" than there is to "ME"... "