"Misogyny and misandry are evil, ugly twins locked in a hideous dance."
Well said.

I have six sons and have noted during the twenty-six years of raising them, that there have been instances, in my presence, of resentment towards them as males. This has come from female family members (grandmothers and an aunt), and from at least one female public school teacher. And, there was displayed a preference for the girls that were there. It angers me no end to have this clear bias towards a female for being female alone. My boys are wonderful people and I feel I have had to defend them to people that should naturally love them and to those that should professionally want to educate and help them. I can see this contributing to anger towards women or at least towards passivity in life because, oh well, what can I do about my situation, complain and fight back? It is not allowed.

I used to be guilty of using the statement "If men had to be pregnant, then abortions would be legal and offered at men spas". Some good men convinced me that it was broad-brushing men badly, and I try not to go there anymore.

I also used to scorn the stoires of abused men when I was immersed in DV volunteer work. Then two good men I know well ended up in verbally and physically abusive relationships. Our best counsel always had to be to call the police first, so they never got caught by a crazy woman calling and reporting non-existant physical abuse.

My own Sweetheart is paranoid around our best friend's daughter and her friends because of all the horror stories he's heard about the least little mis-interpreted word or sign.

Not exactly misandry, but my real-life examples of how close we can come to it.

I could write volumes on both end of this issue. No way would my stories of misandry be accepted here. There is a classic example of it on the cover right now for you viewing pleasure. Hate speech accepted as laughter. I appreciate the offer but I just don't have guts or the need to defend myself from the scorn that would come. And all of us men know it. That is why this thread will go nowhere.

Dr. Spudman, I expect you are right, and it is tragic. If I promised to defend men who write, I could easily become "feminist" traitor No. 1, and that isn't good for my sanity or stability. How can women with husbands, lovers, brothers or sons or grandsons can tolerate the hate speech that has become routine?

I believe misandry exists, but I don't know if I have enough clearcut examples for a post. I think men are often seen as predators and I think women often have a shockingly unfair advantage in custody disputes. I have known sorry women who I wouldn't leave a pet with to get custody of the children they neglected and abused, because they lied about the father and played the victim. If you as a woman are willing to play the victim role in a certain way, you can reap benefits. Ironically, 'real' victims may never find justice.

One of the most striking examples of misandry is that men are not trusted as babysitters, child care, nursery school, and grade school teachers, home health aides. My brother has taught grade school in Maine for 30 years. He says the climate has totally changed from when parents welcomed a male teacher. Now male teachers of young children are regarded as potential pedophiles.

The endless mommy wars take for granted that women care for children.

Misogyny and misandry are two manifestations of misanthropy, the term I prefer. Hatred of one sex is hatred of half of humanity, and insults us all.

Procopius-That is the best statement even made on the subject at hand.

Dr.Spudman44 said it well.. permit a brief elaboration...Feminist's have a lock on the hate speak and victim status. After all, the patriarchy they so despise had no complaints.. They still don't verbalize.. what good would it do? The plight of the eternally oppressed is what is important. Nothing else. Men can go to hell.
They have no right to speak. Whatever misandry they may suffer at the hands of mother, lover or wife, it is so eclipsed my misogyny it has no viable relevance.

@Mary W.
The much misunderstood and reviled "Lesh" has an impressive index of posts of an anti fem nature. This man is not ( as it may appear on the surface ) a misogynist... He gets called that ugly name on about 50 % of his posts. He is providing a rhetorical backlash to feminist propaganda/ logic and its subversive side. There is one you may know. Very powerfully written and compelling. Yet his readership is low ( but growing ) and he is now beginning to be evaluated for his body of work...comments are becoming incisive instead if cheap shots from some of your buddies.

At Redsotcking ... the woman who forced her old man to read every word of Simone de Bouviour before she took him to her bed. Well let me say, I read The Second Sex for free.

Procopius.... I am with the good Dr.Spudd ...the best comment in this entire morass of crap. on this ... amen.

I am an old-fashioned girl. When I welcome a man into my body, I welcome him into my soul. I have only gone to bed with my two husbands. The first loved the Second Sex and I and he was a wonderful father of our four brilliant daughters, who don't see the necessity of reading any feminist propaganda:) My English husband had less homework; he already loved Jane Austen.

. Don't assume who are my buddies. I am regularly accused of being a feminist traitor. From the beginning in the late 60s, I have opposed male bashing.

I enjoy reading Lesh. I agree he is misunderstood and reviled. I am disturbed how many feminists cannot read, understand or listen.

Since no women have accepted my invitation to be a co-blogger here, I am perfectly happy to let you guys take over. Women often take out on me their frustrations with men.

Can't you see that I am urging men to speak up? I encouraged them to post here, where they might be among friends.

Misandry is a coy interpretation of the real culprit, typically defined as "man's inhumanity to man": war, cruelty, greed, slavery, power madness, contempt. Up until recently, when women became first class citizens, misogyny was only a subset of man's inhumanity to man. Now that we're equals, we can all experience human cruelty on an flattish playing field. To attempt to interpret human cruelty through a myopic lens, to reduce it to a sexy, "men vs women" equation, is to avoid squarely facing the cruelty harbored in each of our souls.

Monsieur, essentially I agree with you, but I do hold women responsibile as well for humans' inhumanity to humans": war, cruelty, greed, slavery, power madness, contempt. Women have always been complicit in their own oppression. A lifelong rebel, I know there is always something one can do besides being a lifelong victim.

Given how successful our toddlers were in doing what they wanted to do, there is some validity to the old saw, "the hand that rocks the cradle..."

Redstocking Grandma, thanks for your invitation, and this is indeed an interesting blog. I'll post a few thoughts right now (and I hope to be back more times).

Indeed, misandry and misogyny are two aspects of one thing (and they are not the only ones: any belief in the inherent superiority of some naturally definable group of people is part of this dance somewhere). I wished 'misanthropy' didn't already have a different meaning (the desire to avoid people, to live like a hermit), because it would be a good word to use -- not only for misandry and misogyny, but for all kinds of racial prejudice, since it is true in all cases that hatred against a group as such, because of what the group is, not what it does or says, is hatred against a form of humanity, and thus offends all humanity in all its forms.

Having said this... one concern I have is that discussions of misandry can also fall into the same kind of traps that discussions of misogyny fall into; namely, the idea that only our pain hurts, that only our problems are real problems, etc. Men are neither worse nor better than women, and in some of the comments posted here I think I detect a few faint indications of this phenomenon.

I think empathy from both sides towards both sides is important, and I am extatically happy to see you emphasize it in the blog name itself. Because, you see, there always is the danger that a blog on misandry will end up being just the male version of so many blogs on misogyny -- a place where people just feel that the whole world has turned against them, and find some easy culprit ('patriarchy' or 'feminism') to hate.

I think people who are really interested in building bridges -- as I am -- should all work together, and find some way of avoiding the usual traps. There are too many radicals out there -- I nickname them radfems and antifems -- already trying to paint everything in black and white.

I don't think a post on misandry would go over very well on OS. OS is kind of an affirmative action place, and I don't think there would be much interest in men's experiences. I've had my head taken off just for writing in comments about it.

mishima, I just revised my introduction.

Since women haven't accepted my invitation to be co-bloggers, I would love men brave enough to post on misandry to become Mary Wollstonecraft. You don't have to reveal your regular OS user name, either in your post or your comment. The bio gives the login and password.

Feminist traitor that I am, I will try my intimidating best to prevent male heads from being chopped off. I like my grandson's head as it is.

Asehpe,

You make brilliant points, that misandry and misogyny are mirror twins, that hatred aginst a form of humanity offends all humanity in all its form.

Given that this is OS, I think it unlike that men would be permitted to fall into the trap that only their pain hurts, that only their problems are real problems. I am distressed by how many men seem to have given up all hope of dialogue, not believe any OS women can understand and empathize with their hurtful experiences with women.

Having a grandson has been transforming, bringing back hundreds of tender memories of my little brothers. I worry what the sons of some vituperative feminists must think. In the early days of feminism, it chilled my blood how some women spoke of their young sons.

I desperately want to build bridges, I want my baby and toddler grandchildren to live in a world I was once so sure their mothers would live in once they became mothers.

Debbs4, I am so impressed by the mother of six boys, being the daughter of a mother with only five boys. I am afraid more and more there is resentment of men as men. The structured world of day care, the grade school is not a hospitable one for boys. They are much more likely to be referred to a psychiatrist and medicated. The exclusion of men from teaching young children because of paranoia about pedophilia is terribly destructive for both boys and girls. Complaining and fighting back is always worth a try:)

I hope you write much more about your experiences and ideas.

Kellylark, I was never fond of that statement if men had to be pregnant. How about if women were drafted into the Army.... or if women worked in dangerous jobs with a high risk of injury....

Sadly, my younger husband shares some of your Sweetheart's paranoia around his stepdaughters' friends. He worries that they will find him "creepy."

Be sure to read Dr.Spudman's Be Aggressive-Hilarious Stories of Misandry and Misogyny

I also recommend Cap'n Parrotdead, A Word from Your Local Misogynist

We are on the same page, Mary...

For those who doubt whether there is an audience for male points of view on gender issues on OS, let me share my experience. Further down on Mary Wollstonecraft, you'll see my post: "Excesses of Feminisms Past: Some Context." You'll see that this is the third time it has been posted, each repost being because a feminist woman asked for it. Further, it is on Doloresflores' best of the year list. When I first posted it, men wrote in saying, "Watch out for your balls now!" but in fact the response was good. Also, despite the headline, see Tracy Clark Flory's post still on the front page of Broadsheet, over at Salon, "Male Writers Go Limp." In paragraphs five to seven you will find some actually understanding remarks on the effect of feminism on men. She doesn't say, as I would say, that the most savage of those writings should never have been published, but she certainly recognizes that there's a bad effect there on men where it hurts most. Consider also Sandra Stephens' extraordinary post "Thoughts on Misogyny." She catalogues terrible things that have happened to her, and it seems for a moment like it's going to be Against Our Will writ small, but then she takes a turn toward love, acceptance and respect for men.

There's room for us.

Redstocking Grandma, I never told you that I am grateful to you for taking a stand against Susan Brownmiller at the time, as you told me in comments on my piece. More power to you.

Matthew,

I try to reassure men that you are exactly right. Perhaps the most vehement feminists are among the most frequent posters. But so many women have had very different experiences with male friends, mates, bosses and will be able to empathize in their comments.

I also recommend fins2theleft's Misandry and Man-Haters Rampant on OS

Dr. Spudman, Cap'n Parrothead, and fins2the left did not get creamed or crucified for their thoughtful, brave posts.

You took the words right out of my mouth and heart Mary. Never in my Italian/American/Catholic upbringing was there EVER a word raised against ethnic groups, genders, or Homosexuals of either gender. My family, descended from Italian Nobility, unlike many Nobles fought for the rights of Serfs and many of our family came to America as they sensed the rise of a certain kind of selfishness that later became fascism. I was a boy sandwiched between two sisters, and grew up with 30 aunts and 40 female cousins living right in our immediate neighborhood. My maternal granddad was an FDR Progressive, as am I, as was my mom and dad, and I differ from many of my peers in that I see abortion as an evil perpetuated by Nazi's and their followers like Margaret Sanger and her "Planned Parenthood" which was aimed at Blacks, Catholic's and especially Italian Catholics. It is that sort of thing that is behind the Tripartite/Trilateral/Bilderberg/Fascist idea of eliminating 80%-90% of the world population. "Abortion being legalized long ago if men could give birth," is an abomination of a thought and is a losers/whiners comment.

I echo Scarlett Sumac's comment.

Oh, I forgot, I Rated this article.

Here is my entry, sorry for the lag time.

http://open.salon.com/blog/lonewanderer/2010/01/07/open_call_response_i_am_a_man_and_i_dont_apologize_for_it