Lea Lane

Lea Lane
Florida, USA
August 26
author, Travel Tales I Couldn't Put in the Guidebooks, available at Amazon.com and on Kindle
“I’ve discovered the secret of life,” Kay Thompson, the eccentric entertainer and “Eloise” author, once said. “A lot of hard work, a lot of sense of humor, a lot of joy and a lot of tra-la-la!” And that's been my life: As a travel writer for over 30 years, I've been around the block (more like around the world), and I write true stories about interesting people and places. (Check out my travel site, Travels With Lea.) I've lived an unconventional life in conventional trappings. Been a corporate VP, worked with foster kids, acted in an Indie ("Nurse 1"), was on Jeopardy!. I've been managing editor of a travel publication, written for the Times, and authored books. OS is my home, but I also blog on The Huffington Post, and I've contributed (mostly anonymously) to everything from encyclopedias to guidebooks. Married young, divorced late; married late, widowed early, I dated lots in-between -- and survived a scary illness. After being happily, peacefully solo for many years, I'm now happily married again. I founded and still edit www.sololady.com, a lifestyle Website for single women. I'm truly grateful for each precious day, each well-earned wrinkle, my family, my cat. Truth, laughter, friendship, late love. And this blog -- on this wonderful site!

Lea Lane's Links

Editor’s Pick
MAY 28, 2010 10:39AM

Real Life Lessons from The Real Housewives

Rate: 30 Flag




My brilliant grandma watched soap operas. My witty mom read romance novels. I’m hooked on The Real Housewives Series on Bravo. And so are many of my smart girlfriends and yes, some of the smartest and best writers on OS. (You know who you are.)

The Real Housewives of Orange County, New York, Atlanta and New Jersey will soon be joined by shows featuring self-centered, privileged women in DC and Beverly Hills, and most of them have too much money and too little “cultchuh.” And many, like DC housewife Mrs. Salahi of crashing-the-White-House-state-dinner fame, are pretty despicable.

For me, the melodrama of this season’s current New York series has been like crack. And I know I’m not alone in following the Housewive’s blogs, although I haven’t gone as far as joining Team Bethenny.

The reunion show in two weeks –when the women interact and argue live after the entire series has aired – is going to be party time for lots of us.

Meanwhile, for you “nosebots” (the blog term that’s evolved for those who automatically turn up their noses at these kind of shows), I can only say I used to watch “Nature” on PBS to see the survival of the fittest and life in the wild. I used to watch “Sex and the City” to enjoy vicarious girly stuff. I watch The Housewives to get both.

Plus, I’ve learned some  life lessons. Mostly, how not to act.

There’s always a Queen Bee. On the OC it’s Vicki, On NYC it’s Jill. On Atlanta, it’s NeNe, and on Jersey it’s Dina and her sister Carolyn. Others may take their turn as Queen, but usually one of the women gives it and won’t take it, and assumes the world revolves around her. If there’s an entitled Queen Bee in your life, watch closely and try not to let her or her followers sting you.

There’s always a goat. Group dynamics seem to dictate this: Gretchen on OC, Alex on NY, Danielle on NJ, Kim on Atlanta. Sometimes the women deserve the scapegoating; more often, they are just the easiest ones to pick on. In my life I’ve seen this happen on long press trips. It’s a human dynamic to pick on someone and then gang up. The goat sometimes redeems herself, but usually just whines in endless confessionals.

Want to write a book, make music or start a business? Become a Housewife. Connections, buzz and fame count the most. Who needs talent if there’s a ghost writer or a packager, a pr agent, a publicist, and a sound engineer with lots of echo?

Money can’t buy you class. Former Countess LuAnn de Lesseps, dubbed the “Countless” by Ramona’s hubby Mario since her divorce from the Count, proves her own point almost always, despite her new recording of the same name. These women may have lots of money and 15 minutes of fame stretched to 20, but they have minimal talent and no irony. None. That’s what makes this fun to watch.

Don’t say “We’re done” to a friend unless you really mean it. Jill, who used to be Bethenny’s BFF said it, and then Alex said it back to Jill on behalf of Bethenny. Doubling down on dopey. Count to ten before you bail out on a friend worth keeping.

Make lemons out of lemonade. I meant it in just that crazy way because that’s what truly incoherent, hair-twirling, lolly eating, “like” repeating, drug taking (?), “cook not chef” and “ho-bag” accusing Kelly said, kind of. That’s how she talks. She makes no sense, seems paranoid, and is insanely jealous of Bethenny. She is the train wreck of train wrecks and when you watch you can’t help being fascinated in the darkest of ways. Some people are not worth listening to. Cut them from your life quickly or help them get help. And actually, make lemonade out of lemons. Whatever.

Be aware of privacy issues in this age of tweets. I’ve learned you shouldn’t have life-altering conversations on speakerphones with others listening. Don’t text or email gossip,  or put personal messages on Facebook walls, and especially, if there’s a tv camera, remember there’s an editor.

Think twice before getting big boob(ie)s. When everyone looks like Barbie, Raggedy Ann starts looking good. Loveliest are the unenhanced, perkier Alex and Gretchen, who probably will get enhanced by next season.

Don’t go to an island with people you don’t like. And expect the unexpected when you do. Vicki set up a girls' trip to Miami Beach and the guys came. And oh my, the scary things at Ramona’s rented mansion in St. John with unhinged Kelly and “surprise” Jill. Make sure you have an escape plan if you set up a getaway.

Take your meds. But not too many. (See Kelly, above.)

Drink in moderation. Ramona and Vicki and Kim I’m talking to you.

Get a hobby. If you are so vapid and consumed with yourself that you can’t let others get happy you should really get one. But telling someone “get a hobby” can make some Queen Bees mad enough to end a friendship.

The final New York Housewives segment is next Thursday. And the reunion the following week promises to be a fitting climax.

And if you nosebots take a peek at the dynamics you might just understand why it fascinates so many of us, and what we can learn about human nature too.


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My name is Lea and I'm a Housewifeaholic.
My favorite housewives are the (relatively) sane grounded Mother Earth types, like Jeana from the OC, Caroline from New Jersey. I used to see Jill that way in New York, but no longer; she went off the map. There are very few of these women I'd actually like to be friends with in real life, and some of them are truly certifiable, but watching them is a guilty pleasure. I'm still Jonesing for Real Housewives of Utah County or Central Wisconsin.
Lea! Just like OS - a Queen Bee, a goat ...
Very timely review ::gets out TIVO::
Yes, there are some grounded women. But I think it is the chance for the unexpected, such as Kelly's meltdown, that is compelling. Scripted series are only as good as the writing, and few are well written, or surprising.

And yes, Central Wisconsin is a natural. :)
I am shameless when it comes to watching these women. It's a juicy, no-holds bar look into an underworld! It reminds me of the nature chases when you see the lions crouched, their tails switching back and forth, the camera panning to the group of gazelles, and then *zoom* the chase is on... But mostly what I appreciate here, Lea, is that you give me life lessons which I can use to justify my shamelessness--thank you!
mypsyche, I can't tell you how many times I have defended myself against "nosebots." Truth is, some of my very smartest friends (and OS friends) are hooked on this, and we chat after each episode about the behaviors. I actually *have* learned lots about human nature watching these women.
The reason I don't watch this line of shows is not snobbishness, but because spending time -- even the virtual kind -- with women like this is my particular idea of Hell. If I were in Guatanamo, this is what they'd play in my cell to get me to confess.
Silkstone, that made me laugh. Making me friends with any of these women would be worse than waterboarding, but I can watch them.

Lea, I could easily cast CW. Lord.
Don't be tardy to the party... OR
Money can't buy you class...

These are show-stealers, and mind numbing because only these two phrases get repeated. ::walks off humming::
What Silkstone said.
I watch the New York series avidly - shamelessly. I always wonder what's been edited out. And you have to wonder if they watch the show themselves. Kelly honey, you really NEED to see yourself as others see you.
I only started watching this a couple of weeks ago (my daughters watch it). I was trying to explain the fascination with them to my husband who despises cattiness of any form. I told him that watching these women helps me be a less catty person! Glad to know I'm in the company of other smart women, and I also understand what Silkstone is saying too. It's definitely a guilty pleasure.
I guess I'm going to post on the real housewives of Open Salon.
Hmm, I hope you won't feel any less toward me if I admit to being a nosebot.
Honest, I'm not a nosebot. I've tried, if only because I love you and your impeccable taste. But I just can't 'get' it. (Maybe it's because I've known too many like them, or not enough).

I can get this great post and the lessons proffered. Oh yeah, every one is a gem. Like you.
Stellaa, you were among the first I came out to about this fascination, since I felt you were a role model for a woman of substance (the legal, intellectual kind ahem.) And then I found my savviest flesh friends were hiding their fascination, and now we bond over discussing the foibles while nosebots make faces at us.

Silk, whatever you do, please don't take time away from Mad Men and your brilliant analyses. That is just about the only scripted TV show I watch. And in a funny way, these women represent these times in the same kind of way. As Stellaa said, we could write about the foible of human nature in a thesis if we watch with that kind of eye.

sixtycandles, according to Bethanny (whom I believe), what was edited out on the island was worse than we can imagine. Scary, with locked doors, and a sleepless night.

Mary, join the club, but I warn you, it won't be easy to get out.

Sheep, you're a sweet nosebot, but to a parody you'd have to watch the show. And you might even like it for some odd reason, and get hooked yourself. :)(My new hubby does--because he can't believe his eyes.)
Stellaa is right. NO guilt. Just maybe, wonderment at what it is that makes it so pleasurable.

Susan, missed you back there. Glad you're in. Or "out."

Steve, you can do anything, even be a nosebot. I like you anyway.

Sally, it is so interesting that you're not hooked. Do you watch anything similar, or have you ever? I know you are going through such serious stuff that this all seems frivolous but I wonder what makes some of us go for this and some not.
We don't get this show on our cable package in Saudi Arabia. We get Desperate Housewives though - but I think we're a season or two behind.
Geraint, Desperate Housewives is to The Real Housewives as a lightning bug is to lightening.
Okay, then I have big time WONDERMENT on why I like these shows. As for the guilt, you can take the girl out of Catholicism but you can't take the guilt out of the girl. Damn nuns! I'm working on it...

I'll have to check these out (I probably need to check to see if my cheap cable subscription includes Bravo or not). I have my delicious TV addictions now, and they are definitely on the cheap side of entertainment. There is simply something delicious in that!!!
Oh Lea, I do get the human nature angle of it all. I think that's the appeal of all reality TV, and I have watched enough of it myself to understand. To fully explain, I would have to write a whole post of my own about why and how certain types of behavior in women make me nuts and these women have it all in spades.
Hi, Leah. My name is Joan...
Yes, I am a shameless follower of these Housewives. This this one of the most intriguing shows I've followed in years. The New York women are my favorite although the only one I actually like is Bethanny. I'm looking forward to LuAnn's singing career. I'm hoping Kelly gets the help she so desperately needs. I could go on and on. And on. Thanks for such a great post._r
Lea, your list certainly applies to real life female groups. The cliques in high school were like this. The groups of girls in college were like this. The women at the office are like this too. I'm not a "Housewives" nosebot, but I don't watch the show because the title is inaccurate. They aren't "real" housewives; they don't have precarious financial issues and none of them are overweight. (But of course, nobody wants to watch THAT show!)
Well you know I'm watching...as my husband and son roll their eyes and say things like "seriously?!" that's because they have never hung out as a woman in a group of women. This is a great, obervant post, and I particularly agree with the life lesson about going on trips. I've been to St. John, and it's not exactly close to anywhere. Why would you go with a group of people who hate you, and why would you insist that you had just "dropped in" on your way to St. Bart's, or wherever they were headed?

See you for the reunion show. ;-)
I call this "zoo tv" because the reason to watch is the same reason many people go to the zoo -- to gawk at the crazy animals that are so different from us normal people.

Nonetheless, I watch all of the "Real Housewives" like the addict that I am.
That said, there is a phenomenon about these shows that inevitably leads to uninteresting-ness. The first season of a "Housewives" show is always interesting, because the cast is still unaware of their "rep" with the viewers. They are not aware of how the process will alter forever their lives as they know it.

The second season, the women are in an echo chamber, choosing their reactions based in part on what they think others will think of what they are doing. That consciousness alters the dynamic, and not always for hte better.
I really liked your life lessons...I will try not to have speakerphone conversations in front of the camera. One of my HS classmates is a designer and has appeared on the NYC one but I haven't had time to watch ...I can't wait..it sounds like fun.
Hilarious, Lea! One of the NY house wive did a spread in Playboy a couple months ago. That's about the only exposure I get to reality TV.
They should do a Housewife series in North Port. Picture an over-weight skank sitting in a folding lawn chair with a can of Busch-light in one hand and a cigarette in the other. Now, THAT would make for some interesting TV. God, I love this town.
I am proud (now) to be counted among this group of esteemed Housewives addicts. I never would have admitted that out loud until stella and you and kathy did here on OS :-)

Have you watched Jerseylicious ? Even my Sweetheart got addicted to that one. Its a fascinating glimpse into a microcosm of life amongst a more middle class group of Jersy Italians. It reminds me soooo much of the Italian familes I grew up around. They were having a pot-luck, and everyone volunteered to bring the "sawce". Freakin hilarious, but REAL!

While we are confessing, I also continue my 35 year addiction to General Hospital with daily DVRs of the show iyiyiyiy!
Mary, after covering AI you have earned a relaxing day at the zoo ... I mean Housewives. They are On Demand so you can even catch up on the NYC ones.

Sparking, Housewives are the Krispy Kremes of reality delicious. Totally addictive unless you have the vaccination that some of commenters seem to have. I may opt for that vaccine some day if i can find it, but not until this season is finished.

ZaZacat, when the series started they were making a play on words of the most popular show at the time, Desperate Housewives. I never watched that show, because I don't like most scripted shows. I think this series did that one in.

Joan, I was hoping you'd come out. You and Ann and Stellaa and all the commenters have proved my point that interesting, intelligent women who can write seem to go for this particular reality show. Human interest? The human condition? Just plain curiosity?

Ann, again thanks for outing yourself and proving my point. See you at the reunion.

Iron Skillet, yes the show is altered by editing and by offering comped trips and parties and encouraging the women to act out. And yet ....

snarkychaser, addict that I am, I probably know the designer from the show. Actually I once was invited to an event during the first season of RHONYC and Alex and Simon were invited too. I didn't go because I didn't like them and boy am I sorry, as I changed my mind on that one.

Michael, the women who did the "spread" was Kelly, who is in the midst of having a real mental breakdown in front of us. It is terrible, but fascinating.

Nancy, welcome to the group! We are pretty ok if I say so myself.
I try not to watch these show because I have an addictive personality. I watched one episode of Housewives Atlanta, and after that all I could talk about was NeeNee.
Lea, I am having the most unproductive day...I m exhausted...burnt out to the core...loved LA...the American Idol finale show was fantastic (thanks to my wonderful anonymous benefactor)...but up late writing those reviews...beautiful outside but I don't care. I'm tired. Didn't know they were On Demand...going there right now. Thanks!
readwillett, it beats smoking and real crack. There are worse things.

Mary, you may be sorry, but get comfy and enjoy the snark.
I'm with Sally, I tried, but I just don't get it. Maybe I am just too much of a gardener or something. Or maybe I am just old and cranky.
I admit it. I am a fan.

There's something appealing about watching the dynamics of mean girls on tv versus having to deal with them in real life. Also, with the marathons, it has become my version of tune in, turn on, and drop out (of real life) for a few hours.
The Housewives shows have been my guilty secret for years. Thanks for getting me out of the closet.
"Some people are not worth listening to." You said it. Every minute spent listening to these disgusting morons is a minute gone from your life.
I watched it when I had cable - now firmly in the streaming netflix world, although I could watch them via hulu.
I liked OC for the inane drama, but the phrase "professional vaginas" kept leaping into my brain. I don't have children, a husband or a house. So it IS like watching a nature program for me...and makes me happy I don't have children, a husban, or a house.
My sig. oth. has just discovered the wonders of "The Hills" which he is downloading constantly. He's so befuddled by Spencer and Heidi aka Speidi. Also like watching a nature program. " Our cameras will now wait to see if one talking vagina can complete a sentence...".
Even worse? "Pretty Wild" that features one of the little criminals from the Bling Ring who robbed houses of celebrities. It was filmed while her lawyer was desperately trying to get her to tone it down - she starts her six month sentence next week.
So, um, I guess I'm not a nosebot! I seek out the more juvenile forms of reality tv - or Sig. Oth. does, anyway!

Can I just say something about LOST? There was no recapping happening here for this past season, that I know of. A few series finale posts, one or two made the cover. I put up my ususal inanity. It (the series) really wasn't noticed much on Open Salon.
(And Silkstone is a genius recapping Madmen....)
Best line: "Women will have their dramas".
Susanne, no you're just naturally vaccinated. And I see no correlation between age, intelligence, sophistication. You just like it or you don't.

Half-assed, I agree. You don't have to worry -- their worries. And it is a kind of mean wallpaper.

lolix, I have a feeling that lots of OSers are in the closet about this.

magritte, you are a nosebot!

aim, I didn't watch Lost, but you're right. Nobody here seemed to care much about the ending.

Mary, drama is an understatement. NYC is melodrama of the highest order.
I'm an admitted addict, too, Lea. The NYC gals are my favorite because they are a little less scary than the glambots of OC, the blingbots of Hotlanta and the mafiabots of New Jersey.

I would like to see a DC franchise because I live in Baltimore and it would be fun to run into a taping or two. I don't care if loving this show makes me seem vapid to some people.

I have a friend who is just like Jill; very self-centered and needy. I still like Jill, but she started something she now can't seem to finish. I hope Bethenny comes around, but they will never be as close again and probably shouldn't.
Kat, I've had friends like Jill, too. I don't anymore. Too little time for that. I value character and I don't care for entitled ladies.
I have several confessions to make. One, I love People and US Magazine. Two, I was addicted to Ghost Whisperer, which they canceled. So, I'm not a snob.

So, if I want to test drive this show, I go to On Demand and pick the Real Housewives of NY?

Yes, denese, the NYC housewives are the one to follow. And the next two weeks will be some finale.
I guess, with LOST, that I did care and that it is constantly used as a reference for shows that get attention here? Nope. LOST was not even discussed here, besides one brave blogger who posted last year and had two comments at most to inspire him..
So why even bring it up?
I think it's becuse people mistake it for Survivor, which was brilliantly recapped by gypsybooots. Who is cominghomes daughter and recieved an amazing prize in philosophy but then all power went out and she could not watch television, which fits in with her nefarious blogging.

it's a huge plot. The island won't let us hear about tribal council.
I believe you, aim. Sounds completely plausible to me.
One of my guilty pleasures...along with another terrible program I'm too embarrassed to mention....and the movies "Fast Times at Ridgemont High" and "Joe Versus the Volcano." ;-)
I hate to admit this: I can't wait for the Beverly Hills!!
Ok, I'll fess up. I watch the NY ladies, though I find them truly objectionable and I often ask myself right after--why did I watch this? Then I wait a week and watch the next episode. (I find the Countess's singing career the most preposterous of all the blatant and talentless self-promoting going on, by the way). That said, where are these blogs you refer to, Leah?
Nelly, what is the other "terrible" program? I probably watch it too. It's ok to like this. I like good literature and indie movies and all. This is the fluff.

Luis, yeah. Happy to see you hear among the addicted.

reluctant muse, the blogs are on Bravo.com and are extremely interesting as a way of seeing how the women think, real time. The husbands blog too, and Simon's is usually funny. Also, the comments are incredible. Jill and Kelly and LuAnn have taken a real beating.
Sounds like I've been missing out! I have yet to see any of these shows, but know a lot of people love them. The lessons you mention are good ones--and if you can get them while being entertained, all the better!
Susan, from what I'm reading about you on Facebook you're not missing out on much. You're kind of living the life! (But nice.)
Lea, sorry, didn't see your question sooner. I was briefly hooked on Project Runway (love Tim Gunn) and, if you can believe this, the earliest season of Apprentice (I related to the entrepreneurial/marketing challenges but ultimately couldn't take The Donald). Of course you know my Miss America thing, but with no more scholarships and too much Vegas, I'm gone.

I just reread Silkstone's comment and really, she summed up my feelings exactly: "The reason I don't watch this line of shows is not snobbishness, but because spending time -- even the virtual kind -- with women like this is my particular idea of Hell."

You are so completely unlike those women, I truly don't understand your fascination. NOT noseboting, just bewildered.
Thanks for your update, Sally. I am bewildered too. Curiosity? Melodrama? Good guys over bad? Fascination with the human condition, just as I am fascinated with animal behavior? Release? Just caught up because I write in front of tv and I don't have to follow a plot? But for many of my nicest friends, it's the same way.
I have always loved other people's wives and am proud to admit it!
My name is Ablonde and I am deeply attached to the Real Housewives thing on Bravo. I have grown to be more and more interested in the goings on. First (you never forget your first) in Orange County California! Then NYC premiered, and after some initial resistance I became just as interested in them, I was fickle! But I am thinking it is like having children, as each new housewife franchise opens there is just more room in our collective, voyeuristic, judgmental hearts. The Jersey Girls and the Atlanta Ones haven't captured me in the same way -- yet, but that table flipping episode the Jersey Girls had last season has piqued my interest.

Often the Housewives are like accidents on a highway. As gruesome as we know it may be, we will not look away. We will slow down and go out of our way to see the brutal event so that we may talk about it more accurately later with friends.

It is curiously reassuring to see patterns of human behavior repeated over and over, and of course I am not referring to good patterns. Some things never change.

The fabulousness of superiority. I think it makes many of us feel good to others act with such poor manners, and behave so impolitely that it makes you feel pretty good because you know, no matter what, you would not behave that way. For example, I feel superior to Kelly on RHWONYC because I WOULD NEVER BEHAVE LIKE SUCH A RUDE BITCH the way she did on the trip to the Caribbean. Wasn't the first time, and there are others on the housewife roster that behave in a way that horrifies me because everything points to evidence that says: they knew not to act that way.

Sorry Lea, this is too long I should delete it, but then what a waste of time writing it would have been.

Just one more thing... Jerry Seinfeld and Liam Neeson think the Housewives are worthwhile. So there.
Fred, you may be challenged with these women.

Ablonde, glad you came by. Your analysis seems spot on. I feeling of superiority? Maybe.And Liam Neeson? I wonder who else can join in our rehashing bashes.
Okay, I just remembered I watched the Marriage Ref a few times. It was funny but would be much funnier if most of the celebs weren't as clueless as the couples. I bet Mary Kelly watches it and screams the right solutions at the TV screen. :)
Great post Lea. I don't watch ANY TV cause I get what I want on the internet. I doubt I would watch this but is it on the net. And if so where. I love your "life lessons" and for me, life is short and films and books take the lion's share of my time. But do tell, can you watch on the internet. I will watch "The View" or "Daily Show with Jon Stewart" for hours, my guilty pleasures. Anyone?
Sally, I watched "The Marriage Ref" once and agree. But this show is nothing like that. I'm sick of "celebs." These are wannabes.

Yes, Wendy go to Bravo.com and YouTube. You can see the "best" worst moments at a minimum. I'd stick with NYC, as the best of the bunch.
I watched the OC housewives show on a regular basis. But for some reason the Atlanta and New York incarnations have not appealed to me at all. Maybe the brain chemical that responds to the franchise seeped out of my brain?
There's a whole new term out for those of us who are unenhanced and undramatized. Radical Homemakers, coined by Shannon Hayes who wrote a book by the same name. I was interviewed as a representative of that cult recently. I guess jeans hanging off the back porch and canning jars lined up in the basement count as credentials for something!
Never! Never will I watch that claptrap! (But I like your post attempting to seduce me into watching it.)
flyover, I feel the opposite about the franchises. Can't take NJ.

Laura Weldon, I'm not sure that wholesome sells. Not this year.

Man Talk, you nosebot you.
I've been sucked into this series... I laughed out loud when I first saw this year's New Jersey opening montage. Caroline posing with her off the shoulder cocktail dress gets me everytime. :)))
Yes, that dress is something else. Caroline has an interesting body!
Will, welcome to the club. Male viewpoints are especially coveted.
The Finale! The Real Housewives are my respite from Real Life. We were left with: Jill, humbled but unrepentant - "I am who I am" - Ramona, transcendent - the fact that she could get Mario to go along with the vow renewal suggests they do indeed have a good marriage - Kelly still a mental mystery - Bethenny wisely ready to move on - LuAnn, happy but clueless as to issues of money and class - Alex telling Simon to shut up - thank you! - and Sonja, who seems smarter and richer than anybody else, ready to write, what else, a steamy novel. Well done, ladies!
ahhh rhnyc are my guilty pleasure...I just love looking at trainwrecks .. Crazzzy Kelly is Koo Koo for Cocoa Puffs lol
Ladies, I just found out that I will get a chance to meet Ramona and Mario in NY at the end of the month. May report on it!
What Silkstone said, both times.