Jeff J.

Jeff J.
Cattlearoma, New Mexico, USA
June 08
free and clear
A computer programmer who is no longer geeky enough to be interested in how software is constructed; I care more about what software can do for people; or even more about people, period. Mostly interested in the taboo subjects of religion and politics: religion as an atheist, and politics as a left-leaning Democrat. This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivs 3.0 Unported License. Any work copied or excerpted under this license should be attributed to Jeffrey G. Johnson, and included with a link to this blog.

APRIL 2, 2012 5:04PM

Shit Men Say to Men Who Say Shit To Women On the Street

Rate: 14 Flag

Here is a welcome addition to the "Shit people say" meme. This one is in support of Stop Street Harassment.



Any men out there catcallers or serial "complimenters"? There is an appropriate way to tell a woman you think she is beautiful, but you'd better know her pretty well first, okay? Your animal impulses are not welcome.


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Not to be a contrarian, but walking by a sidewalk cafe with a friend, we passed by three beautiful chattering young women in gossamer summer dresses and I impulsively put my hand over my heart and said out loud, "Now that's just not fair!" Every one who heard me including the girls had a good laugh. I think that whatever shit is said has to be taken in context.
Love the video.

Jmac, it does matter whether you look threatening/leering, which you probably did not. Nonetheless, regardless of whether they laughed, it's not polite to draw attention to a stranger's looks in public, whether those looks are good, bad, or odd. You shone a spotlight on them and basically suggested to everyone within earshot that they should check out the sights.
Actually everybody was looking at me for the old fool I was.
Thanks for the amusing story jmac, and thanks for the woman's perspective Karen.

I think among y0unger men (boys?) there is a bit of an epidemic of sexual rudeness in many urban environments. Maybe too many grew up without strong father figures, or perhaps they are too emboldened by the misogynistic patriarchal egocentism that is so endemic to hip-hop videos? But then the wolf whistle and the cat call are nothing new. I don't know, but I think the younger more aggressive men are perhaps more threatening than us aging old fools are. But then the aging fools can still make fools of themselves, and be creepy, but just perhaps less scary because we no longer have enough raging virility to be dangerous. We're more to be pitied perhaps? :) lol
There are people who know the boundaries. Jmac is one of them. I love a good flirtatious remark. In fact, flirtatious remarks are the only ones I get now that I'm old, because harassers don't go for old women, they go after the ones who seem young and vulnerable.

But I certainly had my share of harassment until my 40s, and I hated it. You can tell the difference. Flirtation asks; harassment intrudes. If you are a guy and this is not intuitive, don't try it until you figure it out. But if you can make eye contact and smile, or nod, or say something friendly--with a sense of the situation, a social judgment that some people have and others can't seem to learn--then go for it. If the woman ignores you or glares, run your behavior past a woman friend and see if that was really out of line.
An Asian woman I used to be very closely associated with used to secretly call Asian men tinydicks. Not that size matters or anything like that! :) Very traditional Asian men, while they may possess many virtues, preserve a pretty obvious sexist macho culture if they haven't had the benefits of a modernizing education. Pretty much from the middle east to the far east boys are pampered and privileged over girls from a very early age in ways that are unimaginable in the US or Europe.
Flirting is one thing. Done right and offered with courtesy, it can be pleasant for both parties.

I think I love the guys in this video for speaking out against real harassment that causes fear and embarrassment to the girl or woman!
Tis a fine line- a great sincere compliment is always appreciated, it makes the man feel masculine and v v . I am always uncomfortable when only one woman is complimented in a crowd as I feel for those excluded. I see this happen frequently and am amazed at the insensitivity.
Thank you! Some years ago I used to carry a walking stick with me when I walked the streets of D.C. The harassment was that bad. Of course, dudes took that as their cue to ramp up the harassment, but they didn't grab me anymore, so....
About an hour ago I saw my wife out jogging. I pulled up next to her and lowered my window.
Before I could speak she said "Hey creepy, how ya doin?"
I left.
Many things play into our perception of creepy vs complimentary. I think one should be gracious with a compliment and see it for what it is, a simple compliment. And creepy is really only an issue (to me) if I feel threatened, otherwise its "so hows that workin' for ya? moron..."
Jeff,so useful your video and thinking.Sexual rudeness and animal impulses are not welcomed by me too.Makes me angry and insulted!!Thank you for sharing.Rated with wishes for a beautiful month.Best regards!!!
The real problem is people think it's necessary to mouth every opinion. If everybody would just shut the hell up, and we managed to get rid of conversation as a social norm forever..... well, I guess we'd just be stuck with preventing actual rape wouldn't we.
The reason you think younger guys are creepier about it is because you aren't one of them any more. It's been true for a long time. In the old days, particularly for girls walking past construction sites...
I think the older guys are creepier (if they don't know how to behave). The young one's are just boneheaded and vulgar, but even then they are not creepy like us older guys because they are blessed with youth.