MAY 5, 2012 6:06PM

janie smithie et al has jumped the shark

Rate: 17 Flag

 I have not been very present on OS for  long time.  I posted one haiga a day for a year and decided to take a break after finishing that commitment to my audience here and to myself.    I take writing seriously, art very seriously, and community so seriously that I am very careful about who I associate with publicly and privately.

On a day when I decided to write a serious essay about women and science, which went to the cover, got an EP, went on the mothership homepage as the OS highlight, and made me proud to be a writer, a woman, and a participant at OS again...well, on that day, janie smithie decided to jump the shark.

She has been authentically seeking attention and doing so by causing drama and crying wolf alternately for many years.  I was a beta member and remember when she showed up and have seen all of the incarnations.  I tried to be a friend to this individual years ago and engaged in private messages with her much moreso than on the list.  I found her writing persona irritating and boorish.  I did not want to know that writer.  Offlist, the person seemed fine and worth knowing.  So I was friendly off and stayed away on-list.

So there are my bona fidas with regard to this person, currently going by daisyjane.

I snipped part of her most recent post and have some comments regarding it.  They closed comments so as to not deal with the shitstorm they drummed up for themselves.  I think that is beyond poor behavior and moving into assholery.  If you can't stand the heat, don't set the house on fire.

So, here is what I have to say about it.


I was overjoyed to have my writing accepted and read and enjoyed by many upon my return with a serious essay.  And then I saw her bullshit posts in the right hand column of most read.  I ignored them until it carried over into facebook and I saw that many of our mutual friends were upset and talking about it.  I went to the source and read both the piggish attention whoring post and the piggish attention whoring retraction.  I was not hurt, I was disgusted.  I nearly pulled my own blog just to distance myself from this childish fool.  I write under my own name and am an established artist and professional.  I am now and forever have been exactly who I am since the late 1990's when I got involved with the internet.  I am the same person on G+, facebook, here, and on my website.

I like my blog, I like the haiga, I like the genuine comments.  I like writing, I intend to do more of it and to post it here and several other places. So this is not a flounce, I am here for the duration. 

Her posts were  like ice water over my head, though.  It screamed of everything that I hate about OS.  The disingenuous reactions of hurt and dismay coming from both sides of the posts, the comments and the posts themselves, left me with an urge to vomit on three levels.

One is the writing.  It was poorly done.  Capitalization is a worthwhile tool that creates more clear communication.  Non-caps as a general rule where they are traditionally needed is a sure-fire effort to jerk you around from the get go.  That is why she does it, just to call attention to it with no good reason.  Woohoo, so avant garde of her!  Bullshit, always has been, always will be.  Irritating.  And the rest of the post, disregarding formatting, speaks for itself in terms of writing.  I will not critique that further, as the writing of those posts is not what this is about.

Art, even performance art, is a serious endeavor but should be presented as such to be appreciated.  The social aspect of OS had obviously blurred that line in this case and may be the primary cause for the anger expressed towards this writer. It is deserved.  Art should not serve the purpose of simply jerking chains.  That is not at a level of art.  That makes the writer no more than  Rush Limbaugh.  I hope the writer understands that that is NOT a good thing.  So as art, it was bullshit.

And regarding community, it is at an even lower level of bullshit.  She, assuming for the moment that the writer is female and not doing another art piece on what females are as writers on public sites, claims that in a fit of pique at not getting the attention and support that she required of us as a community, that she decided to jerk our chains to teach us some kind of lesson.  I suppose.   It is unclear.  She then says that it was a mistake and implies that forgiving her is a requirement of people in community with one another.  Wolf is cried once again and we, the villagers, are demanded to attend and apply salve to her hurts and protect her from harm.  I have been observing this for YEARS from this writer.  Community does not work like that.  Trust is an essential characteristic of community and she has withdrawn from that voluntarily.  She should have thought about this before the originating post.  Now there are real consequences among real people who are part of this real community.  I never withdrew my account because I grew to love many of the beta people and the others that followed.  I understand nommes de plume and the reasons for it.  The friends I have made here are known to me by their real names, or at least I like to think they are.

daisyjane, current moniker, has officially jumped the shark.  Further interaction with her is a waste of energy.  I will not interact with her again.  My only desire to interact with her would be to keep a link to her two bullshit posts and follow her to wherever she comments on anything and just comment behind her with those links to put it out there for anyone interacting with her current persona that she is bullshit, personified, the worst OS has to offer.  But that would be being a troll, and I am not one.  This post is not a trollish seeking her out, it is a commentary on what transpired here in my neighborhood.  

I have no idea who the writer is actually.  The chaos they add to the world offends me.  It makes me ashamed to be associated with the site.  But I know that you have to take the good with the bad.  I am declaring here directly, that the writer is bad, has no intentions to add to the site outside their own desire for unwarranted attention, and cannot be trusted with our community.

And since she closed comments, I am making mine here.  While I am certain she will cry and shout that I am attacking her, why should we care any more?  People are not required to forgive, it is a gift that, if offered, should be received with gratitude and treated with respect.  I will not forgive her.  Period. 


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I have a dabbling kind of curiosity about this "Person"
I never read her before I saw all the commotion
on the daisyjane blog.
I did see some of her comments on other blogs I read
and could see that sometimes she was nice
sometimes not
I assume she is not a poetry fan
I do not remember seeing any comments of hers on my blog
She reminds me of another blogger here
who also says she was a beta blogger
she lived in my home and spent her entire days and nights
stirring what she called dust-ups
I wondered when I saw the daisyjane controversy
if she was not just another incarnation
of Robin Sneed.
Thanks for explaining
It was difficult to understand what the big deal was
but you have made it clear
I will be back to read your other blogs
you are an interesting writer
rated with love
Thank you. I debated posting this for the last week.

This is less about her and more about my OS experience. This is the dark side of it. OS is a wonderful platform for serious writers and such dust-ups and artificial drama detracts from the real possibilities for serious people.

I could certainly simply ignore her and her ilk, but they frequently comment bomb otherwise serious posts and genuine commentary, turning the true purpose of the site into yet another mirror for their ego.

Such nonsense is what facebook is for!
I had thought I'd met this person at the Open Retreat at Mohonk 2 yrs back, organized wonderfully by Greg Correll.

I have now no idea if I met her. I see no reason to have been traduced as she appears to have traduced us.

If there was a reason behind it and reason more compelling than simple whim, I fail to see it.

I gather humor is not your métier.
Smittee has been a friend of mine for 3 years. She has had her ups and downs just like we all have, but through it all she has kept a great sense of humor and has been a friend to me both on on off OS. I value her friendship and wish nothing but food things for her and her son.
Yesterday I went into a bookstore to buy Peter Bergen’s book on the hunt for bin Laden. Right next to it on the New Arrivals table was a novel by one of the “Real Housewives.” OS is like that bookstore – there are some writers who have serious intent right next to others that do not, and often the ones who aren’t serious get more attention. While I agree wholeheartedly with your sentiment, doing a post about the attention-seekers just gives them more attention. My advice: pay attention to the serious ones and ignore the others.

First of all, no RP... DaisyJane/ Janie Smithie isn't Robin Sneed. Both are loons, but different subspecies! :D

Now, as to the post, I don't have much disagreement with what you said. I admit that I found her comments to be disengenous at best and I told her so. However, as Jane herself pointed out, it's not like we're bestest buds, so other than being annoyed that she pulled kind of a boneheaded stunt that DID hurt people who did interact with her, it ain't no biggie.

Now, the reason I'm comment on your post is because of your implication that unless all writing and/or comments here are of a certain "caliber", they don't belong here or aren't worthy of recognition if they are allowed

That's where I feel the need to call b*llsh*t!

There are many of us here who write for the sheer fun of it and because of the cross play. We blog. We have no desire to write War and Peace nor do we care much if we receive praise and accolades from the likes of Scary Kerry and his band of renowned. We swear, we yell, we stomp our footsies and we say ALL kinds of crazy stuff. Hell, being demented loons is half the fun.

There are also a BUNCH of aspiring writers here who don't write worth a DAMN. They are here to practice their writing and to, hopefully, get better. This is a GREAT place to do that because of the feedback.

So, congrats on all your glorious EPs and Salon accolades. I'm happy for ya. However, WE have as much of a right to enjoy our lousy writing and each others insanity as you do to write "wonderful prose".

Know what I mean, Jellybean???

P.S. I adore capitalizing RANDOM words. It's, almost, as, FUN, as, excess, comma, usage,. You should try it.
Her fan club arrived. Whoopideedoo!

Giving her attention is only worthwhile in this meta way to address the problem I see with OS. The people who just want to write and have fun are not the people I think make OS less than it could be. People who degrade the community are the problem. My sense of humor is intact. If what she did had been funny, that would have been cool. It was not. It was mean spirited and intended to punish people who did not meet her specific needs. She said that. And the retraction was equally self-serving and back-fired.

So it is not just part and parcel to a wide variety of talent. It is a different problem, a community problem.

I am sure she appreciates your being white knight heroes defending her. I question your judgement, but that was what this post was about, so I guess I was clear. That's all I try to do when I write.

Getting accolades is not the point, but it is nice to be recognized. Nothing wrong with that. The point I was making with that was that in the enjoyment of that, I was brought down by the ugliness of the whole JS event. And the event was just a tantrum, in stark contrast to real attempts to write and communicate. I read a lot of writing that is not stellar, grammatically adventurous, rude, and most of what makes me keep reading is "funny".

I will look at your blogs and see what I like. Your opinion of this post won't mean much with regard to that. It isn't why I wrote it. I wrote it to try and highlight the situation so that it might improve. I wish I didn't think that it was important to do that, but I did.

I am cool with all of these comments. Your thoughts on the experience are welcome and interesting.
ya know, i get that whole 'embarrassed to be seen here but at the same time i like it here' feeling. i totally get that.

this last wackapalooza business with daisyjane was just one more instance where i had to do a head count to make sure the good still outnumbered the bad. it did.
So it seems you're saying you appreciate humor. Might wanna give it a shot. Perhaps you would excel.
I am never funny when trying to be funny. I am naturally funny. In this case, on this topic, my bubbliness is lost. And I am wondering if Chicken M is a sock puppet of JS. How would we ever know?
C'mon, Matt, you want to back up a little. I failed to see the "humor" in Jane's post too, and I think I know a little bit about humor.
Cranky, I know how you feel about Janie's post. You and I will undoubtedly never see eye to eye on it. I happen to think her hoax post was hilarious, as she upended many people who had her pegged as a flighty little pet to indulge occasionally, and resented that she played on that perception and turned it around on them, quite deftly. Her reason for doing so doesn't interest me. I admire clever writing above all else.

But in this comment thread, until you brought it up, I was limiting my remarks to Elizabeth's writing and the tone of her post, and to Amy and the clever, raucous insouciance of her comment.
Elizabeth, as you've been absent awhile, you are apparently unaware my identity is no secret. I've noted many times how Chicken Maaan came about. My first blog here was as ClarkK, which was the pseudonym I'd been using for several years in other Internet fora. When I decided to start posting chapters of my novel on OS I started a new blog under my own name, Matt Paust, so I could keep the fiction current longer while posting other writings on the other blog.

Later, after a stretch of posts on Matt Paust's blog about the chickens we raise at home attracted a following of sorts I whimsically changed ClarkK's blog to Chicken Maaan's.

As to Jane Smithie, I love her like a daughter. She has an innocent if feisty and dangerous heart. She also has a natural sense of humor, which exhibits itself in the sparkling gems of tone and nuance in her running stream-of-consciousness online journal. Granted, if you're put off by her grammar and lack of capitalization, you would miss this. I imagine you cringe at the very idea of e.e. cummings, altho he at least put periods after his initials. Whew. And Kerouac - oh, mercy. Joyce at least has the cachet of those who know, so one who doesn't fancy uninhibited rambling had best tiptoe lightly around the likes of him.
But, speaking of rambling, I am, I know, and I desist.
Trust is earned and as you mention, ..."is an essential characteristic of community." I have been thinking quite a bit about the whole "trust" issue lately. I toggle back and forth with my feelings on it here on OS. I suppose it is partly why I use a pen name. I was not overly invested in the situation that transpired but for me the daisy chain is broken. Not because I was hurt, or had, or not smart enough to 'get it' as has been suggested.

The lower case thing, though, depending on how it's used can serve a purpose, especially in poetry. I checked with e.e. cummings on that. :)

The lower case thing, though, depending on how it's used, can serve a purpose, especially in poetry. I checked with e.e. cummings on that. :)
Your logic is as always impeccable. I do not want you mad at me :0). I have never known whether to be amused or distressed by the
"Dorinda Fox is a C*" post made years ago by jane in whatever persona. It ceased to have any relevance to my life however that archived out there should I ever want to become I dunno a federal official would be awkward to explain ;0) I do like the energizer bunnie who is now marching about the bottom of your post.
I'm glad you had the courage to post this. I felt sorry for people that posted the same time the two self-serving grandiose post you mention were also put up, as those works likely saw far fewer readers due to the Big Drama. When jane smithie told another poster, one who seems mentally fragile, that she should kill herself, I felt that said all there was to say. Her venom and hate are not funny, but maybe I don't have a sense of humor...
Scarlett - repetition is poetic, too!
@Snippy: Oops, I have no idea how that happened ...
oh good lord, really?
I like you Elizabeth, you are a fine artist and I enjoy your writing, but *this* is whining. What's worse is you are meta whining about her meta whining, and are not even noticing the irony.
wtf? you are brighter than that
@Dorinda ~ You praise of Elizabeth's logic brings to mind this observation of Rita Mae Brown's: If the world were a logical place, men would ride side saddle.
Still good with all of the comments.

D, I remember that. Part of the mean-spirited discourse I loathe.

I appreciate anonymity when there is a reason, so as I said, I have no problem with pen names, although Sumac is poisonous!

Thanks for the clarification CM. I believe that you are not her. I went to your blog to see the novel. I do despise Joyce, not because of the running stream of consciousness, but that even if you parse it all out, it is still overblown blather. I had to read a lot of it at one point and never acquired a taste. The ideas are sometimes interesting, but the conversation about Joyce is always more enjoyable than the Joyce itself, kind of like flan.

I see most people who refuse caps and punctuation as
e.e. wannabee's.

And D, OMG. It was the dancing rabbits and hawking viagra ads that spoiled my haiga for me and made me quit. I would pay just to be able to post without the ads. how can you post a primarily visual piece of information with a dancing bunny gif right below it.

CM, pleas go way back in my blog and look at the haiga posts. My sense of humor showed up there on a near daily basis for over a year. But as I said, I am not funny when I try. I love a good joke, though, and am an easy mark to make laugh.
Oooooooo, KEWL! Thanks, H-Jules!

My next blog posting is gonna be me piss & moaning about people who piss & moan about JS's pissing & moaning about people who DIDN'T piss & moan at some asshat who was mean to her.

It should be a guaranteed EP, dont'cha think? Mebe I'll even make it to the mother ship and Scary Kerry will tell me how much he appreciates all that I do! (He might even forgive me for that little affair with Emily!). :D
I read your other post but didn't comment. I frequently don't when it comes to talking to children as I don't have that experience to draw from.

I am curious, though, why you felt the need to write this post. More people now know that you routinely get EPs and get posted to Big Salon which, if you read here, is a recurring topic of discussion for a lot of writers that would like to share that experience. And this does read like a flounce- "Oh, darn it, this shrill person stole my thunder. And she can't even write correctly!"

Most of the people I read here who are serious writers say that they really write because they enjoy it. You have the people who read you and the people that you read. And browsers like me. Isn't that enough?
Oh, and Jules... I don't do irony.

If its not permanent pressy, I don't want to know!
For me, it's better just not to take OS too seriously. But we all are here for our own agendas (did I just double-pluralize that word?) Though a self-admitted dilettante, I think I do get the impatience of those who are here for professional and artistic reasons.

I once blogged under my own name (Cindy R) but had to nuke the whole blog when I began seeking a job at a very Internet-savvy online high school. Since then, I enjoy being Snippy and checking in every once in awhile. My husband's cancer is becoming an unwelcome but constant factor in my life, and I come here for free entertainment and some relief from what really matters but is too hard a burden to carry at all times. I guess what I'm saying is that I don't sweat the small stuff. (Though I can't say the next line, "everything is small stuff," because it's not.)

Perhaps the ideal alternative would be the tabbed pages people have suggested in the past. We could have "arts," "fiction," "politics," "engage with trolls," "start your own flame war," "fifteen minutes of fame," "high drama," and so on.

Oh, ha ha! I'm currently sporting Jane's avatar from way back. Trig recently referred to her as having once been a sheepdog, and I knew darn well she'd been a St. Bernard. I happen to love her; she's authentic, and though I consider her pugnacious at times, I admire her frequent defense of the vulnerable.

The irony was not lost on me at all. jeff and I discussed it a bit before I posted this re the giving her more attention and feeding the beast and the issue of exactly what I was complaining about. WTF is that I am tired of the essential photo bomb that is JS. You like her, I don't. On a personal level, I probably wish her well, assuming anything I know about her is real or ever was. But doubting that pissed me off. One thing that bugs me about it is that the kind of flakiness that her persona portrays is the shit that all women get plastered with on a regular basis by assholes. I get it and I am definitely nothing like JS's personas on ANY level. So her portrayal of a woman here is just more feed for the myth that women are idiots. Half of the shit she writes about is like a formula for how to be a miserable twit. She admits this but then wallows in it without progress out of the muck. YEARS of this for anyone to read for themselves in the internet archives.

And the Display last week put my post, "Why are women dumb?" in high contrast, while screwing me in my attempt to get back into writing again. All I was looking for was a few people to read it so that I could get a guage for if my political commentary would get any traction instead of pretty and funny haiga posts, which I am mainly known for. The EP was fun and a boost that I needed after a long winter's nap raising a kid full time.

Your comment actually hurt my feelings, as I think you know me on a personal level and I care about what you think, but what the hell, the truth is unpleasant sometimes. So, OK.

You want to talk about irony? You bet your ass I get the irony.
How could I forget? With the tabbed pages, we could have dksshg shdkeh and all his friends post under the "free advertising" tab.
Phyllis, I am sorry that I was not clear. The EP was a very rare thing and that made it special. I have only made it to the OS feed on big salon ever, never a published article. I am such a not-writer that I get a thrill whenever it is noticed.

My EP's over time are because I have been writing here for a really long time now, since the beginning. I am/was the monkey at the typewriter for so long that I got noticed. One of them is a chicken pastry recipe for god's sake!

I do not consider myself a writer by any means. I am a pretty good haiku poet and a professional artist and painter. "Writing" is a fragile endeavor for me. My head is not puffed up.
Scarlett - repetition is poetic, too!

Poetry from repetition?
An odd proposition.
Lacking skill/inhibition,
but of strong disposition,
I'll use that ammunition
in a small exhibition.

(Sorry for being off-topic, epriddy. I'm taking advantage of comments being wide open. :-)
Snippy! I miss you. Check my grammar!

Oh, and I recognize that avatar. It was in the bourne Ultimatum era.
I think I closed comments once at least. I have no idea why I did it. But I would rather delete a post than close comments on one.

Maybe it was a troll...I don't remember.

Comments are still wide open!
(I would marry Amy but she already has the hots for Joanie, who is one classy babe.)

I get it. You're outraged at this trifling. the attention blog whoring or whatever you called it. (cough cough)

I suppose were I to paint a picture of the OS I felt you were describing, it would be a stately mansion, maybe like the Frick. With oodles of genius, hung willynilly on marble walls, and for all the casual old mansionness of it, when in that place, you might feel compelled to whisper.

Unless you're an artist. Then you go to the Frick, you skip up the steps you peek in at your favorite artists like old friends, you sit on the rock hard benches. you might fart out loud or not. you might look at that beautiful little Vermeer that's hanging on a dark old wall and wonder if that's what art is about..what Vermeer was about: a humbling experience where one dare not.

or maybe you'd think that art is alive, should be alive, should reflect not just the desire of the collector or the curator, but somehow it should feel like a reflection of the light of the world bouncing off your eyeballs.

and the world buzzes. and people talk and eat and spill their beans. they're stupid. they're smart. they're human. and I WANT to feel that. I want to feel the vision, see the vision with their eyes. and I do when I'm here with some writers.

there are some people who are good writers and they are great to read. and there are some people who are good writers but when I read them, I don't get it. I get nothing. milk raised to another level of white, as I described to a friend yesterday about a writer here. a good writer. a respected EP CP writer. my take. my bad.

she never serves up nothin, miss smithie. maybe today it's madness. maybe tenderness. you may get a passle of insights. or a pack of lies. or she's a just gettin by, doing this or that. and you come back because tomorrow you may feel humbled reading the struggle of a human pushing back at life and trying desperately to be.

art isn't pretty sometimes. sometimes it's ugly. sometimes it's madness and meanness and jealousy and the blackest of blacks. sometimes it's so stunning and brilliant your teeth chatter.

that's my os. put that in your pipe.
I didn't think it was funny. I didn't think it was smart. I thought it was dopey. and hurtful. but it was also maddeningly insanely brilliant. matt's right.

hoaxes suck. the people who believe them always feel snookered. I felt like crying. I've already spoken about that. but I get it. I don't AGREE with it. but no blood was spilled. no one lost an eye. and we're all here, and someone is blogwhoring like there's no tomorrow her old self. and that's how the world turns.

I shoulda been in bed an hour ago. hot damn.

goodnight mrs kalamazoo.
((Epriddy)) yeah, I knew it would hurt your feelings, but the pile on of Jane has been riding me lately, and I couldn't not say something. Especially the old timers. It's like- damn people- you've seen her for years, and she did not act a bit out of character, why the rage? You are my friend, and I hear you. People come in all shapes and sizes internally as well as externally. It's about honoring what is, and what someone can do with what is- not wanting to mold someone into a different shape entirely.
That and I like her speaking out and being real, even if real bores me or annoys me or just makes me think wtf. I like how out there she is. I'm glad she feels safe to do that here. Hell, I glad I feel safe to do that here. I've been able to be completely me here and I don't do that anywhere else.
Hey! The title of my post is straight out of the JS blog whore playbook. One of my most read posts was about blogwhoring.

I am not offended. I did that on purpose. It was irony. Intentional.

My ideal OS is messy, but not mean spirited. I don't like madness that hurts people. In fact, I have seen enough of it first hand that I despise it. She seems to revel in it. The occasional kindness isn't worth the hatefulness, the calling a woman with deadly cancer a cunt in a fit of pique, suggesting a depressed woman kill herself. I remember stuff like that. She did that to people that I like, people that didn't deserve it. I don't need that in my life and don't want it tolerated on a purported writing site.

One of your descriptions is exactly what I am looking for in a site. Nice descriptions.
Well, Julie, so you deliberately tried to hurt me.
That was mean.
Ok. Got it.
no, you are not hearing what I am saying. I said something I thought was right, knowing that it would hurt your feelings. That and saying something to hurt you deliberately are two different concepts.
This is a strange one for me. I get the whole thing here. I get it and it annoys the hell outta me that this shit occurs.
But. I have to go with Jules too, I mean I wish I was that together to say hey your breakdown sucks the life out of me and I just can't hear one more self indulgent word about it.
So I will continue to read you both and stay shit yes.. I like the crazy and real and the real and trying and the real and starting over and the real and sad and the real and happy. As long as real is somewhere in there. When I feel that real is gone so am I. I regret that the most sensational microcosm story stole away from a genuine effort. Please keep your writing up and I will be more sensitive to move away from the sensational.
ALL RIGHT, Lizzy P! You GO, girl!!!

I love it when a chick isn't afraid to show some (thin)skin! Whoo! Whoo!

Keep it up and I'll let you join me when I prance around like a reindeer, wearing nothing but hightops, an open bathrobe and a tiara.

HA! THAT visual should cure Foolish M from wanting to marry me!)
Two different concepts can have the exact same effect.

Being aware of the one doesn't make the other right.
That is a big part of my point.
I am sorry I hurt your feelings trying to make my point.
That's not necessary. I knew people would hurt my feelings if I posted this. My skin is certainly thick enough for this forum and for friends that shoot straight.
Poor Daisy J! There's no need to chase her like a pack of angry torch-wielding villagers, all the way up the church steps, where she'll frantically pound on the doors screaming "Sanctuary, sanctuary!"
Let us forgive her and joyfully welcome her back into the OS fold thus proving we are the tolerant, accepting, left-lurching bunch so many of us purport to be.
Should we not bolster each other in times of duress instead of tearing each other down? We all have our special talents and fortes that should be celebrated and that's what the focus should be.

Take dj: She's a lowercase fixating, avatar changing, sanity challenging piece of work, in my book. No one does it better.

Phyllis is a browser's browser.

Pissing and moaning? Amy's elevated it to an art form.

Scarlett is a master toggler.

And you, of the slightly tilted head, serious 1 1/2 eye look and pert upturned nose, seem to be a jack of all trades!

Sure it would be fun to burn Crazy Deranged Jane at the stake for her transgressions and roast marshmallows for s'mores in the fire with the kiddies while she sizzles (hot dogs sound good too - I'm hungry) but aren't we better than that?
Well aren't we?

(If we decide we're not, I'm good for the graham crackers and hot dogs.)
I'm glad we're having this little father/daughters talk. As my mom used to say when she held our chins and thrust the teaspoon filled with cod liver oil at our lips, "It's good for what ails you." In this instance, "us."
my challenge to daisyjane is to kill the new blog and start a new one, one with NO reference to JS, never, not in pm's , not oblique references, not in an all lower case stream of consciousness style. She has demonstrated that she can write like a normal person without that affected distraction when she chooses to.

if she can start over with a new blog, her real name, her actual person instead of an extended bad joke, she can see how many friends she can accumulate authentically.

And that would be an actual apology and good for her, too. She could break out of her ridiculous box and really write, actually put all that talent, all that fire and music to use.

But that won't happen. Or maybe she is already running more than one blog. Who knows? Who cares? And that is my point. I will stop beating this dead horse. I appreciate everyone who participated in the conversation.

If it made people think a bit more before they act out like children for a few OS minutes, if it lets people with poor impulse control see how their actions affect adults who take writing seriously, if it reminds people that they are free to do as they please regardless....whatever good it did, great.

(I can't help my pert nose, it is a welsh curse!)

I will continue to write and make social and political commentary. I may also present fun and pretty haiga.

Thanks for the welcome back!

Comments are still wide open and will remain so.
I personally don't like scolds.

If something's going on you don't like, ignore it. If it brings down the tone of the place, you can decamp for someplace classier.

And, also, besides: Jane posts today that she's taking a nice calming trank. Maybe we should all partake. Cheers.
i dont put any thought into who or what is real on the internet... still gettin used to the whole idea OF an internet....outa the usual...
Just a hint for any budding botanists ...

There's more than one variety of Sumac. The Sumac around here is the non-poisonous variety. The red clusters can be used to make dyes, the Seneca and Iroquois natives added it to tobacco in their pipes, and the berries can be made into a beneficial tea or even a pink lemonade.
I don't come around much any more either Elizabeth, and when I do,there is still usually some sort of shenanigans going on and bring the site down. There is a certain type of OS blogger that I have learned to avoid, and JS is one. What really blew my mind about her idioitic post was that anyone believed her! If, like us, they'd witnessed her entire time here, they never could have believed her crazy story. It was also interesting to see who came by here to upbraid you for this post ;-)
At this point, I think janie had a bad day and made a mistake.
I too wish her well and give her the benefit of the doubt.
I too feel it gets a little crazy around here, but, it does everywhere. Sign of the times.

I'm with you on the capitalization, for anyone writing. : )
One thing I didn't say I do want to thank you for making me more cognizant of how I play around here and post things, I really don't even look to see what others have up and sometimes I will just fool around and put up some foolishness for fun.
Ooooooo... Deleting comments you don't like now, huh???
P.S. Stop bragging about your comments being open, while at the same time you ate deleting comments you don't like. That's hypocrisy, toots!
I've never earned an EP here darn it! I've been here 50 years give or take!!!

Congrats on that EP stuff to you!!!

Someday it might happen accidently, and then I'll blush...take a bow to myself cause I am too full of myself, and then realize that I want a second one to validate the first!

Darn me anyway!
I need to cut myself some slack I guess....or finally write something worthy of the cover.

In the mean time, I hope that all of this writing on the "JS issue" finally settles down so that you can all focus on me me me!!!

I write poetry!!!!

Oh wait...that might be a bit of the issue....well.....ok...maybe the lack of quality too....
SBA-or whoever you are, your comment was just not worthy of a serious conversation.

I left the rest of yours, the ones that had an element of substance. That little fit was not worth the electronic bits it took to display it.

Attacks on my looks, really?

Regarding the beta references, I made remarks about who I am here so that people who have never seen my fairly defunct blog can see that I am not just some drive by poster attacking poor JS. Most new people reading this wouldn't know that I have been here a while without that information as I have not posted much in the last few months/year.

"Who the hell I am" to be deciding what should get said here is a member of the OS community with an opinion about what I want that community to be. My blog, my opinion, my authority. While you are certainly free to want a sand box to scratch in an have little tantrums, I don't. I am making a case for something other than that.

Closing comments is wrong. Deleting expletive filled personal attack rants is just responsible blog management. I do that.

Leaving comments open is not the same as offering you a free shithouse for ranting. Leave something other than a flaming bag of poo and I will gladly leave it for others to see.

There are MANY comments in this thread that I do not like. They are still there, with responses where warranted.

The quality of your comments got more inflamed the more I ignored you. Are you a JS sock puppet, maybe another persona? Your SBA Alter Ego blog with nothing in it does not speak well to your authenticity, although I like some of your posts.

You seem to have a limited agenda on this topic and are just spoiling for a fight, very JS!
Princess, comments like:

"If it made people think a bit more before they act out like children for a few OS minutes, if it lets people with poor impulse control see how their actions affect adults who take writing seriously, if it reminds people that they are free to do as they please regardless....whatever good it did, great. "

Are condecending and arrogant as hell. THAT'S A FACT. That you somehow felt it was necessary to "raise the dead" so you could them give them hell for diminishing your well deserved praise (in your opinion at least) and to let them know "how it ought a be, by gawd" is both egotistical and foot stompy. THAT'S A FACT. That virtually nobody agrees with you is also A FACT. I'd suggest you deal with it.

BTW, seeing as how JS isn't rising to your obvious bait, have you decided to start wacking at me? Not a good idea, toots. I'm Sicilian and you just might wake up some morning in bed with the head of one of your sculptures.

P.S. Telling you to get "your pert little nose out of the air" is attacking your looks? HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!! Good one!
Just for the record, I do not write to get EP's. This post, for instance, stood 0% chance of getting an EP and probably would diminish my likelihood of getting them in the future. But I had something I wanted to say. SO, I said it, regardless.

But I am not so free of ego that I don't care about it! Hell yeah, external validation is awesome. Who doesn't want that?

My recognition over the years is almost statistical, I made hundreds and hundreds of posts. If none of them were of good quality by that point, I really should hang it up and get a new hobby. Getting better is the benefit of working hard and editing for content and quality. Throwing shit out there to see what sticks is part of it, too.

Everybody has their own motivation and to each his own. We have to know ourselves and work with what we've got.

But that being said, a basic standard of authenticity is something I value very highly and will make a case for. Authenticity will get you an EP faster than anything else.

Even poetry! That is what I wrote here for a year solid, short poetry that you could read without even clicking into the post. Go look! A lot of it is funny. Not many EP's in it, but some that surprised me.

I am not fishing through it to see new comments anyway, just scroll through and see what I am about when I am not being meta-critical. It is much more enjoyable and much more "who I am".

(I have always joked that EVERY post of mine is an "EP".)

"Are condecending and arrogant as hell. THAT'S A FACT. That you somehow felt it was necessary to "raise the dead" so you could them give them hell for diminishing your well deserved praise (in your opinion at least) and to let them know "how it ought a be, by gawd" is both egotistical and foot stompy. THAT'S A FACT. That virtually nobody agrees with you is also A FACT. I'd suggest you deal with it. "

You use quotes funny. I don't use the term 'gawd', ever, so I do not know who you are quoting. What statistic do you site that indicates that nobody agrees with me? You didn't read the comments here, did you? Some agree, some don't. That means that virtually everyone either agrees or disagrees and that would be the FACT! I have no idea what you are referring to when you say "raise the dead". You are ranting wildly. But ok, I'll let you look crazy without any more comment.

"BTW, seeing as how JS isn't rising to your obvious bait, have you decided to start wacking at me? Not a good idea, toots. I'm Sicilian and you just might wake up some morning in bed with the head of one of your sculptures."

Ok, one more comment!

I am not baiting JS. I am not interested in her perspective at this point as I no longer see her as an authentic writer here. I respect the persona for her staying out of it, actually. Much more respect than I would have if she got into it. Are you SURE you are not her? Really? Cause if you are not a sock puppet, you do a GREAT imitation of one! Congrats.

(And yeah, when you apply a derisive adjective to a remark to one of my body parts, the nose on the middle of my face, that is an attack on my looks, de facto.)

you are funny, but not in a ha ha kind of way. Too bad.
You guys are way more interesting than the IEP I am supposed to be writing for a meeting tomorrow at 9 AM.
I would be honored if you would correct my grammar!
Snippy's name came about as a joke in March 2009. My daughter and I had had a disagreement about the evolution of language and what is and isn't valid as it changes. Although I love grammar and find it endlessly fascinating, I make bonehead conventional errors all the time. Still, intimidating others online is a refreshing change from my meek real self.
Last line in the 3rd paragraph from the bottom ... should be spelled unwarrAnted
Fixed! Thanks....

What I want to know is this:

which is correct?

She said, "I am a moron."
She said, "I am a moron".

and is it ever so or does it vary?
I think it's safe to say, "You are a moron.", regardless of where the period falls.
"Amy is a moron," but we all know that.
Actually, I prefer, "Amy is a moran.", in due respect to any Republican sign writers.
BTW, that's it for you Gamble!

I shall shortly be writing a post which will expose the spurious abuse you have subjected me to and I shall demand satisfaction, dammit!

I'm thinking puns to the death at dawn! You will be hearing from my Seconds, Sir!
Amy you cannot put the comma outside of the quotes like that. You cannot. I fear you've forgotten everything I ever taught you.
I fear lots of things but I don't fear you. I do not.
I will ,,,, put commas,, wherever , I damn well please, Mr. Gamble!,

It is not MY problem if you have no appreciation for the fine art of free style comma,ing! That is a, personal failing on your, part sir, and I think you should be both summarily flogged and shunned for it!
That did look kind of wrong, AMY!

So, how should that look if it had a question mark, like this:

She said, "Is Amy a moran?", and then left the room.

or is the comma superfluous with the "?" breaking the rhythm of the sentence?

I really want to know. I refuse to look it up, but would like to know the correct way to do this.

Grammar is a uniting force, as Snippy well nose.
Oh and Kim? Just remember, "Guns don't kill people! Insulted Sicilian's with guns kill people".

Just say'in, Paisano!
Elizabeth I'm sorry this had to happen on your post about a completely different topic, but hey, "That's Amy," as they say.
We have a few "issues" that need to be worked out.
Again, my apologies it had to take place here, on a sensible post which I largely agree with.
Janie lost me when she accused me of siding with the enemy over an issue I knew nothing about, on a post about the manipulative use of deletions. I wasn't nutty about the implications she brought to it. I think I said so.
Quit sucking up and hiding behind her skirts, Gamble! Her ass isn't THAT big that I can't still see you there!

BTW, what's this "We have issues" crap? I thought you were an Aussie not a Frenchman (not that there's a lot of difference).
Sorry, Elizabeth. Awfully unseemly. In the car, Amy. We'll talk about it later.
@Amy: I thought Kim chased you off OS. Wasn't it Kim and trig? Weren't they mean to you or something? Now you're back again, just begging for more. He called you a moron! You're going to get hurt again Amy, I'm just warning you. For all your big bad lesbicilian boasts, I think at heart you're really just a sensitive little Guidette. Not unlike Snooki. Although I'm sure you're not as cute as she is. Not that Snooki's that cute.

@Kim: I'll just say it: your avatar's weird. Sorry but it is. Is that maybe you in a wig or is it really your mom? Sorry! MUM! What man uses his mother's picture as his avatar? I'll tell you: Norman Bates, that's who. 'Nuff said.

Speaking of avatars, I'm wondering why you're not showing your other eye, Elizabeth. People who don't show both their eyes are suspect to me, quite frankly. The eyes (plural) are the window to the soul and if I can only see in one eye, that means I can't see the whole soul. So why is your right eye obscured? What are you hiding in your soul Elizabeth? Judging Deranged Jane when God knows what is going on behind that single eye. For shame!
I actually lost my right eye in a knife fight for justice. It's why I am so sensitive about my nose.
The avatar is actually not hiding the eye-patch so much as showing the ear, to indicate that I am listening for you. Also, I am a Taoist, so one eye into my soul is kind of like a half empty glass, just right.

O, how I love obtuse analogies.

The horse on this thread is officially dead, flogged into burger, flash frozen, shipped, and sizzling on a McD griddle near you.

Ya'll go write some Mother's Day Haiku! Leave it on my blog if you want to conveniently capture it in one spot. I'll make some tea.
I hereby withdraw any implied questions about anybody's sense of humor, and declare humor dead. Just as well. Laughing is for children. I considered laffing at Amy's defense of free-style comma-ing, but remembered in the nick of time I am a grownup!
@ Kim: No. I refuse to even get near that dented & dirty 68 Datsun you drive. Buy a Porsche or a nicely set up Cadillac and we'll talk.

@ Margaret: No, I wasn't "driven off". We had a misunderstanding and I left for a bit. Then I came back and apologized to both of them after I realized that I had been acting much like you (aka bitter, jealous, demented bitch). But thanks for asking, hon.
@Elizabeth: Well I am a Maoist so I don't even believe in the concept of a soul. Just testing you, Betsy! As for your priddy little schnoz something tells me you didn't get it from either mom or dad. Unless they wrote the check to the surgeon. Anyhoo, sorry about the knife fight. I take it it was an eye for an eye sort of thing.

Were you by chance ever a student of Emma Peel's?

@Amy: You've given me a terrible case of menstrual cramps and it's not even "that time" of the month. You're so loud you've given me a migraine and I can't even hear you. I break out in hives just looking at your avatar, before reading a word you've spewed. You're an irksome silly shrew and a '68 Datsun's too classy for you; you belong in the trunk of a Pinto. Preferably bound and gagged.

CM: Leave your inner grown up at the door; this is the kind of place you can climb on the furniture in your muddy shoes, swing from the ceiling fans and wipe your sticky fingers all over the walls! Also pee in the kitchen sink if someone's in the bathroom.
Yes Margaret... I know that you still haven't forgiven me for when we were kids and I never told you that the back of your dress was tucked in your panties. But isn't it time you let it go? I mean sure all the boys were laughing at your ass, but damn it hon, you just can't keep holding on to this stuff.

I'll tell you what: I'll even let you tell people that we are friends! They might even like you then!
Boys did not laugh at my ass Amy; they worshipped at it. As for my dress being tucked into my panties, well do you really think that was an *accident*? My mother taught me to share and why wouldn't I generously share something as worthwhile as my ass? It would have been selfish not to.

Sure, you can call us friends if you want! But that's not going to stop me from putting "Kick Me, I Like It" signs on your back every time I see you.
Ya'll are weird. I like that in people. Nice to meet you. Once we loosened up, it looks like we will get along fine.

But you are both obsessed with my nose and ass. It is not wide enough to hide behind my skirts, I have an unfortunate apple shape, so there!

As to my nose....Sandra Stevens once said that it is a nose that people pay for, as well. But I ain't got that kind of dough. I was called ski slope by mean kids when I was a kid. My nose is 100% Welsh and natural. I have always had it, exactly as is. My son had it until his dad's genes started kicking in recently and the Lebanese side started showing (Thank God, as a nose like that on a man is a very very bad thing).

The eye patch is new.
PROOF!!!!,,,,,,a post with a picture of me when I was about 8 years old, a very long time ago, both the post and the picture.

Nose in place, I always wanted it to grow, straighten out and be like isabella rosallini's. Did not happen. My kid looks a lot like this now, only all boy.
It munged the link and I have no idea how to link in comments, right. I forgot!

Cut and paste is our only hope.

way back from the haiga year
Her posts were like ice water over my head, though. It screamed of everything that I hate about OS. The disingenuous reactions of hurt and dismay coming from both sides of the posts, the comments and the posts themselves, left me with an urge to vomit on three levels.

012, 13 … the beat goes on …

& the beat goes on.
In 013 I learned how pointless it is to teach Grandma to suck eggs.
If only I had a Grandma still.
As in any community I guess we need to abide, like scanner suggests.
Hold our tongues unless we have something constructive to add, something nice.
I think I'll spend the last of 013, an otherwise idle day until the fireworks tonight doing the rounds, visiting the ill & the lonely.

We can all do with some cheer, here.