Look, Ima use caps for you today.
Big Brouhaha that a lot of people are weighing in on, while knowing nothing of what actually happened.
Forgiveness.
Pretty word, ain't it? Prettier concept. We all strive for it, don't we? Both to give it and to receive it, no? Forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us.
But you thank forgivers, you praise forgivers, you condemn the non-forgivers
without knowing a goddamned word of what happened.
Which I find bizarre. Unless, say, someone is a very very dear friend on here, you talk in real life, you know them know them. And one day they put up some post about something you don't know about, but you KNOW they can't have done something wrong, so you defend.
Oh, but wait, that scenario is bullshit. If someone is your close friend, you'd already know the deal, so categorically could not speak from a place of ignorance.
And if someone is not your close close friend, how can you be sure in your defense of them? Why would you defend with no knowledge of what happened? No one gets a free pass because I like them. No one is roundly condemned because I don't.
It's called critical thinking, and plenty of you could try it.
I will speak only to what I have seen.
At Sally's post about shooting, Nutjob left a comment blaming her as a jew for gun violence, talking about rabbis as pedophiles, etc.
Go read it if you want to.
It was disgusting. I mean, he writes disgusting stuff regularly. He is a foul person with fouler beliefs. But this comment was, even by his standards, really over the top.
Fusun defended it.
Fusun said, "ignore the hate, focus on the one sane-sounding sentence."
Uh-huh. There is not a monk in the fucking world that would give that advice. Being a monk does NOT in any way, shape, or form mean you are deluded and pretend filth doesn't exist. It CERTAINLY doesn't mean you give filth-spewers a free pass, pat them on the head and say, "he knows not of which he speaks."
Deleting the comment might have worked, if there had been time before everyone got there and talked about it. But delete doesnt work, either, does it? The scumbag who stalked me didn't stop when I ignored him, did he? When did "ignore it and it will go away" become the best advice we could find? And WHEN is the last time you saw it work??
It's a LOT like blaming the victim. "Oh, this person just spewed on you? Ignore it. Don't let it bother you. You are wrong for being bothered. You are wrong for wanting him to STOP. Don't make a big deal about it, drama queen. Just flush it when he does it."
If you all, individually and collectively, would get your heads out of your asses, learn to assess a situation for what it IS, not for what SOMEONE ELSE TELLS YOU IT IS,
and FUCKING STAND UP FOR WHAT'S RIGHT
the world would be a much better place. Everywhere, all the time, in every single situation.
There is no room to ignore racism and anti-semitism in this world. Your child might be the next shot in a movie theater by a racist. Or you, or a wife or husband or sister, at the mall.
You don't have time anymore to look the other way. When people spout hate, you better speak up. You better plant the tiniest seed that their thinking is just slightly off.
How many people are NOT surprised by those who commit these acts? Know what that means? It means they IGNORED what they saw in front of their own faces, hoping that somehow, ignoring would magically erase the evil. And racism is evil. Anti-semitism is evil.
Also, this whole concept of "unadorned criticism." It's an excuse for showing a lack of kindness, and as my banner says, goddamnit, there is never room to not be kind. None of us here are old seasoned salts, none of us want unadorned criticism and anyone who pretends they dont care, is a good faker, who thinks there is value in being "able to take it." There is no value in being able to take it. There is no girl scout badge for tolerating unkindness well.
Now, all you fifty raters over at Fusun's post, you rated a post defending a man who spouts, regularly, some of the ugliest bile on this site. And in this case, spouted CRAZY ugly bile. As long as you meant to do that, great.
Hell, we are so fucked as a society now, maybe 47 of you MEANT to defend defending the indefensible. What the hell do I know?
But I am so goddamned sick of sheep. Sick of people who think snark is cute or a way to stay above things. Sick of meanness overall. And there is right and wrong and I won't pretend to not be able to tell the difference.
Stand up and be different, why don't you.
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But, I was one of the raters on Fusun's post because I like Fusun. She has been nothing but nice to me. And you're right, I didn't know about the other stuff but I can't read minds- only the words that are posted here.
And I saw the post on FB, too. I didn't comment on that one because I didn't agree with what was being said.
I think we've all been the target of enough meanness around here to give a huge helping of benefit of the doubt to everyone.
Rated.
I am not a racist, anti-Semite, misogynist, ad infinitum even though as a white male I am assumed to be all of those things by many. Unlike many people who claim this I have paid my dues with action instead of cheering on hatred and bigotry. I recognize many of the avatars in question and from personal experience I can say that they are often seen only in clusters expressing their support of their own opinions and implying that they alone posses the right to determine what another person means with the words that that person has chosen.
I am not anyone but me, I comment and think in reality NOT in some elitist world where all people can be categorized by some popular buzz word or assumption based on a mutual admiration society.
I think that it was designed to cause this type of beef and generate a nasty dust up that some incredibly cruel people here seem to glory in. RWnutjob is wrong in his/its opinions and the words are just used for their value as a tool to attack some poor soul who was trying to point out that taken as an honest opinion that there may be a grain of reason buried deep in it when in fact it was meant to sucker someone in for a public execution.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak out for me.
– Pastor Martin Niemöller
Is this an extension of your doctoral thesis? Since you've blithely included me in this harangue, I suppose you're expecting a rebuttal. Here's my rebuttal,
Fu(k Y0u!
daisyjane: If you are going to quote, please quote accurately. Those above you made up are not my words.
"Now, all you fifty raters over at Fusun's post, you rated a post defending a man who spouts, regularly, some of the ugliest bile on this site. And in this case, spouted CRAZY ugly bile. As long as you meant to do that, great. "
I don't know who rated or not rated my post on FORGIVENESS. But I know that it had nothing to do with what you are alluding to. Mine is an original piece of work, expressing my personal thoughts, beliefs, and observations about what has been going on here. It is in no way, shape or form a post in support of racism or anti Jewish sentiments; and frankly I am dumbfounded how you - whom I thought were smart - can arrive at such a convoluded conclusion without any basis in fact.
I never supported the commentator's racial remark; I only pointed out to another part of his comment hoping that it would calm down the collectively raised hackles and prevent Sally's post from the mess it is today. Having read it over and over, I see that she could have simply written, “We go there a lot, often [on non-Jewish holidays] when we have no family gatherings to celebrate.” Leaving out the detail in [brackets], unless, subconsciously she was inviting people like rwnutjob to come out of the woodwork. But that's neither here nor there, and I'd be the last one to sound censorial.
You ask people to “stand up and be different”. Haven't you learned anything at all in these past two days, and especially having seen to my post, which is exactly the example of just that? Haven't you seen how being an independent thinker, being different and a non conformist to a gang mentality ostracizes a person and makes her the target for every possible attackimaginable? If not, go back and read again. There are many who left their signatures there showing their venom and displaying true identities. None of what they wrote defines me, nor addresses my piece. They must have needed a scapegoat, a forum onwhich to pent the frustrations of their lives.
Good luck to you.
♥
I'd like to apologize for making public my private sentiments (in bold) in the last two words of my comment above, and to make a more cogent argument here, hopefully.
As an outsider to all this, what I feel like I've witnessed is a species of internet lynching, and by drawing me into this with the aforementioned statement, coming in the third to last paragraph of this post, quote:
"Now, all you fifty raters over at Fusun's post, you rated a post defending a man who spouts, regularly, some of the ugliest bile on this site. And in this case, spouted CRAZY ugly bile. As long as you meant to do that, great."
this post reminds me of nothing less heinous than one of Obama's disgusting drone attacks in which all the surrounding casualties are labled as terrorists and legitimate targets just by virtue of their having been in the same vecinity as the actual target. And moreover are only perhaps deemed to be exonerated after they've been savagely killed. A real perversion of "liberal" justice, and something that smells a lot like white phosphorus to me.
Adiós ~
NB: for the record; my comment over on FusunA's post was that we should all take a long look in the mirror.
We should stick to sailing, man. & poetry.
Sailing & poetry.
& women & kids.
Sailing, poetry, women & kids. & music ...
& wine sometimes. Crusty rolls & cheese too ...
Thanks, daisyjane.
Sometimes I say about some comment that it should just be ignored, but not when it's anti-semitic (or any other racial/ethnic attack), and not when it says give-the-hate-a-pass-because-it-ends-on-a-less-crazy-note. We cannot let that kind of thing pass with a shrug. And not when comments single out a person out of the blue. Note: Responses to Fusun are not comments singling out a person out of the blue; rather, they are responses to what SHE did to someone.
Perhaps a list should be made of those people who don't think hateful comments should have attention drawn to them. A don't-defend-me list so when someone is rude to you or promotes hate of whatever group you are a member of, the rest of us can turn our backs and shrug.
This is utterly insulting..You have insulted me with your way and words...
"'...If you all, individually and collectively, would get your heads out of your asses, learn to assess a situation for what it IS, not for what SOMEONE ELSE TELLS YOU IT IS,
and FUCKING STAND UP FOR WHAT'S RIGHT..""
I did not know, that for having logic and my own understanding I needed your Ok...oh,no I do not...and no others, too!!!
Nope, it's normal to be caught in an argument between two flowers. Now if they were two badgers, RUN MY FRIEND!! RUN LIKE THE WIND!!
:D
**wanders off**
I am now for:
"You don't have time anymore to look the other way. When people spout hate, you better speak up. You better plant the tiniest seed that their thinking is just slightly off."
And as for all of the 50+ wannabe passive/aggressive or ass kissing sycophants who rated the Queen of Passive Aggressive Bullshit's post, let me just say that I too hope they enjoy their sheeplehood... especially when the Queen of Black Hearts decided they haven't puckered hard enough and turns on them and starts stabbing them in the back.
P.S. I DID think it was funny as hell how she has stated NUMEROUS times just how sweet, nice and kind she really is. For someone who alledgedly so well red, I'm surprised she doesn't know the phrase: "The lady doth protest too much, methinks."
you know I do... but, you do realize this poster is throwing "libby" under the bus too, along with the rest of us... I mean L I B B Y ~ L I B E R A L ~ n.y.c.!!! who commented quite explicitely on FusunA's post !!!??? I saw your commendable comment regarding U.S. bases in Australia & WWII etc. but I have to say according to the next possible president of the US "Mittens Romely" who accuses Chávez of setting up Hezbollah here in South America, that I'm very much closer to the next most likely "kill zone" here where I and my loved ones live in Venezuela. Quote:
We’re at a point now where Obama is counting ”all military-age males in a strike zone as combatants,” as administration officials told the New York Times, “unless there is explicit intelligence posthumously proving them innocent.”
And as you see by the above quote, my prospects are not much improved with the Obamanator. So, I'm afraid, though I would much rather be rowing a boat with you and rita and cutting open a wheel of cheese at Terralba as we discuss poetry and art and all that is truely worth expending ones' numbered breaths upon, I must instead, here, waste my breath calling out the creeping tide, of a brand of US manufactured liberal fascism that I find exceptionally sinister, and not a few wisps shy of revolting.
Saludos ~
I am telling you to stop insulting the intelligence and intellectual abilities of those readers who rated my post.
Enough ignorance and venom were directed to me personally, which I don't give a dirt particle's value. I kept them there as merely the signatures of those who dwell here to suffocate freedom of thought, speech, and expression, as well as gang up on people who dare to express their opinions based on peaceful and non-provocative intentions – not on racism or bigotry – as they blindly wish to believe, rather than read what's printed before their eyes, and think for themselves. Like a pack of wolves, they follow each other howling slogans and slanders, picking on the colour of ♥ which is part of my signature here, as if that has any relevance to the context of my text.
But when people cannot fathom concepts beyond their level of intelligence, they feel threatened and they get into a defence mode. They find safety in numbers and in loudness. Have you ever read Shirley Jackson's “Lottery”? Well, I won the lottery this time.
Let it stay at that and stop attacking the integrity of the raters of my posts. I thank them all, and respect their opinions and rates far more than I do a single, pathetic word you've put out here.
Besides, don't you have something better to do – like selecting your RP's among your clan? Or spew hate and slander elsewhere?
Think about this and be at peace with yourselves.
I think Myriad got the intent of this post -- and thank you, janie (two words I never thought I'd say to you) -- and expressed it the best.
thank goodness...but i dig u and rated this for its wisdom.
This is a lesson i am needful indeed of learning:
"You don't have time anymore to look the other way.
When people spout hate, you better speak up.
You better plant the tiniest seed
that their thinking is just slightly off."
I usually ascribe hate and weird nonsense to Ignorance,
and say to myself, "how sad, but tis only a small portion
of people who think this way." Mm hm.
Yeah, well, it aint, Jimbo. You cannot rely on the kindness
of strangers.
"let us not talk falsely now
the hour is getting late"
all along the watchtower
thank goodness...but i dig u and rated this for its wisdom.
This is a lesson i am needful indeed of learning:
"You don't have time anymore to look the other way.
When people spout hate, you better speak up.
You better plant the tiniest seed
that their thinking is just slightly off."
I usually ascribe hate and weird nonsense to Ignorance,
and say to myself, "how sad, but tis only a small portion
of people who think this way." Mm hm.
Yeah, well, it aint, Jimbo. You cannot rely on the kindness
of strangers.
"let us not talk falsely now
the hour is getting late"
all along the watchtower
no emma, it is "liberal fascism" to impugn the motives and impute the actions of someone, hell everyone in this case, for rating or commenting on a post (veiled or not) about Buddhism and forgiveness, an act for which I've offered an apt metaphor. Or do you also condone murdering the suspects, and then posthumously declaring their innocence. To imply, no, state, that STATHI STAHI, Libby, myself or a host of others who rated that post are anti semites, sheeple or are otherwise in support of a right-wing nut bag is simply abhorrent. Put your contacts back in if you need to.
***alright then, now running back into the rose bushes... ***
I like Fusun, she has been nothing but kind and supportive of me in gentle PM's for no reason at all. She got an extreme beating from what I saw, if she has been making racist comments in the past I haven't seen a single one, I'm a Copt and more inclined to support Jews, I'm also uneducated and have no idea how to even punctuate, and she treats me like an equal. I realized she had no idea what nutjob is like and grasped the one tiny rational line he inserted. Not everyone is aware that there are freaks roaming around, I too have made similar mistakes much to my regret. I thought it best to ignore her comment and noted instead nutjob is a dangerous crazy. There are plenty of creepy losers that love stirring up stuff like that, he's probably masturbating in glee just thinking about it and reading all the conflicts he stirred up. He will do it again next time he's feeling impotent and needs to feel powerful to get a nut off.
This is all very sad because I also like Sally, I'm not a part of any group that I know of and was astonished when more comments came up to find that there was more backstory with other bloggers I like. The strange thing is that this is an odd battle between a lot of kind, secure, popular and talented writers instead of the ones I might expect it from. It was all stirred up by a deeply disturbed individual which is what makes all the injuries so sad. But, that's how it so often happens.
BTW, I have been attacked and maligned by people here and it's just like the real world. Not always will people do "the right thing," even those that rush to do it at other times saying they are always motivated to do the right thing. It's often more about personalities or friendship than principles. That's just how some people are, I can't let how a few act bother me, nor can I get people to do what I think is the right thing.
And sometimes, I'm just plain wrong, and that the thing that makes me the most like everyone else.
Sally Swift writes a post about gun violence that makes no reference to race or religion. Some moron posts a blatantly anti-Semitic comment in response. Amazingly, some people are not aghast.
Said moron writes an even more blatantly anti-Semitic post. Amazingly, some people are not aghast.
One of the people who were not aghast writes a post claiming to be the victim of hate. Amazingly, some people are not aghast.
Daisyjane calls out the people who are not aghast. Now they are aghast.
Yup, got it. We’re fucked.
To clear your befuddled mind, I'm copying this form my comment a little further up on this post. If you read all, you mightn't be so confused:
I wrote: (partial excerpt)
"Having read it over and over, I see that she (Sally) could have simply written, “We go there a lot, often [on non-Jewish holidays] when we have no family gatherings to celebrate.”Leaving out the detail in [brackets], unless, subconsciously she was inviting people like rwnutjob to come out of the woodwork. But that's neither here nor there, and I'd be the last one to sound censorial."
If you are looking for NO reference to religion, there you have it.
This NOT to condone or support the comment of rwnutjob, whom I read for the for time on Sally's post.
Thank you, open-minded people. Has it gotten through, yet?
thanks for comments.
i am exhausted because i got no sleep last night and today i went on the first real hike i have taken in years. literally years. i did not reach where i meant to, but i gave it a valiant effort, and am trying to be proud of that.
so this is going to be my only response to this:
EMMA AND I AGREE.
i think that says far more than anything else i could say.
and thank you emma, and you're welcome.
@amy: you, however, made up the best word OS word in *years* - "sheeplehood." i am in total awe, woman. 11 out of 10.
Fusun, you said (and repeated it already at least once):
"Having read it over and over, I see that she could have simply written, “We go there a lot, often [on non-Jewish holidays] when we have no family gatherings to celebrate.” Leaving out the detail in [brackets], unless, subconsciously she was inviting people like rwnutjob to come out of the woodwork. But that's neither here nor there, and I'd be the last one to sound censorial."
So, if SALLY HAD ONLY NOT MENTIONED THE FACT THAT SHE'S JEWISH, NO ONE WOULD HAVE SLANDERED HER.
Wow, absolutely unbelievable.
Have you no clue what incredibly offensive statements drop out of your mouth when you open it?
My advice, completely unasked for and offered without any expectations, is to just step away from the keyboard for a day or so.
Go actually experience some serenity.
Kiss a baby. Pet a kitty.
But for your own sake, stop posting on here about this. You only make it worse for yourself every time you do. It is customarily considered common sense, when the hole is over your head, to stop digging.
I'm just completely stunned. Completely.
stunned. completely. ditto. just when you think it can't possibly get worse ...
It would never occur to me to leave that part out just to make sure I didn't incite controversy. I was reporting a true story And offering a personal opinion. I would never EVER censure my own work to conceal I am Jewish. To suggest I was unconsciously seeking anti-Semitism is beyond ludicrous and seriously delusional.
inverted:
he said, "To imply, no, state, that STATHI STAHI, Libby, myself or a host of others who rated that post are anti semites..."
i never said a single goddamned poster anywhere besides nutjob is an anti-semite. i said to NOT STAND UP AGAINST ANTI-SEMITISM, and to CONGRATULATE someone who DEFENDED IT, was wrong.
so maybe YOU need to fix your reading comprehension.