EDITED TO ADD: I didnt intend to post this post till tomorrow. Instead, BECAUSE i count so many of you as friends, and have ACTUAL care for you, it felt too yucky to keep up with the last post, tho it certainly was showing what i hoped to show - that we DO know each other, and thats the ONLY reason anyone would care if i had been deceptive.
*****
As of last night many of you suddenly realized that I’m not who I’ve claimed to be. Instead of the struggling single mom you’ve come to know and love and/or hate, I suddenly appeared on your computer screen as a sociology PhD candidate who’s been having a three-year piss on Open Salon, all in the name of fun and dubious research.
Some of you took it in stride and good old-fashioned Internet zaniness. Others were upset and dismayed to discover that the Jane you had invested in was just some privileged a-hole with lots of free time and a complete lack of ethics.
Why were some of you upset? I think it is because you thought you knew me.
Why am I upset? Because I thought you knew me too. Until recently, when various OS ‘friends’ of mine, faced with the opportunity to side with me against a certain psychotic troll, simply declared that they couldn’t judge the situation. Essentially they said they couldn’t tell the difference between me, a consistent blogger on OS, who has been posting and commenting sincerely and substantially for over three years, and some
douche-bag with no posts to their credit and a penis for an avatar. Several of my friends on OS openly declared moral indifference to the situation, because they "didn’t have all the facts" or some such.
Well guess what? You NEVER know ALL the facts, here on OS, or even in real life. All you ever have is evidence to support what you choose to believe. If you choose to believe that your friends and family are all good moral people, your judgment is based on some evidence, your experience of them. But every once in a while, someone you know, perhaps a normal-seeming neighbor, perhaps a husband, will be revealed as a criminal or wrongdoer, and you will be caught flat-footed, saying, “Gee, I thought I knew that guy.” The problem is NOT your lack of judgment about your neighbor. It is the fact that we can never know EVerything.
And yet, we generally run with our understanding, don't we? Incomplete though a scenario might be, we side with our friends and family against their enemies, even when we don’t have absolute complete knowledge of the whole situation. To function in real life as a friend, we need
to be willing to go out on a limb, to some extent, and support our acquaintances of demonstrated good character. This is true even when it is conceivable that they are in the wrong in any given situation. After all, we can always imagine somebody being wrong once in a while, even our own wonderful selves, whom we always know best.
Is it possible that everything I’ve written is contrived nonsense? Maybe. Is it possible that I have exaggerated or edited my life to create a clear narrative of it, with me as the hero or victim? Sure, I suppose it could be done. But even though these things are HUMANLY POSSIBLE, thinking of my long-time readers and OS friends, I would expect them to invest a modicum of faith in me, especially against a douchebag who writes NOTHING, and who has a limited but VERY clear record of being a dick, keeps assailing me.
If we know one another well enough to be upset when we are told of a fraud on OS, then...
we should know each other well enough to step up and defend our OS friends, as fellow members of this online community, instead of hiding in the weeds or hiding behind the universal and banal idea that we are not omniscient.
The fact that we are friends and do feel we know each other is what I wanted to establish with my last post and the reactions to it.
Now I only want to say that I wish people would stand up and be counted, for ALL their OS friends, when trouble starts. You know, because we DO know one another, after all.
As JL said so wonderfully on the other post - the cynicism of trusting no one is EXHAUSTING, and as another said, she just hopes people present as who they are.
It's been my experience that indeed, we OSers are who we say we are. So let's stop saying we have no idea of anything. Cause we do, as much as we ever can.
I am Jane Smithie, hot-headed overwrought single mom, struggling with keith for 8 years, and trying desperately to help my son find his way.
The silence as I was being chased off OS was deafening to me, and incredibly hurtful. I did not leave because of the stalker. I left because no one would defend me from him.
I think that sums it up.
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Reflections of a shallow pond
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lets be like, "cover me, danno" not walk away averting our eyes, while a real true person we know is being very hurt.
So to say I know somebody I've communicated with only online - even for three years - is more akin to feeling comfortable with and liking them than the all-encompassing "knowing." Hell, I'm not 100% sure I know myself. I surprise myself and disappoint myself almost daily. I probly could use some therapy, except that I feel fairly comfortable with and like myself enuf to not be worrying much about what I might do next.
As to pissing contests and bullying on OS, I try to avoid joining in flame wars other than to state my position and then report to OS what I find might be a threat or violation of the TOS, and avoid future contact with the offender. My advice to those being harassed is to ignore the troll. As the motive of trolls is to gain attention, like the brat who doesn't mind a buttwhack so long as it gets him or her some face time with somebody, the best way to lose a troll is to ignore him or her.
But what still dazzles me about this little exercise of yours here is how easily you were able to fool most of us with your change of voice. Truly masterful. I'm still not sure who the real you is, and may never be sure. The main thing is I still like you. What I've gained is an even greater admiration for your wit, intelligence and writing ability.
Now, then, it's time for your spanking...
So, now that Joisey admitted on the last post that their sole reason for existing is to harass Janie, can we agree to ostracize them until they shape up and or move on?
i think this COULD be a little lesson to us all, in losing some of the cynicism of neutrality and instead trusting ourselves and those we care about. nothing is failproof, but there is certainly evidence that makes us trust or not trust. i will say this - the three nutjobs i have known in 20 years? it didnt take years to recognize them. realization was pretty instantaneous. i bet i am not unique that way - you all have, at some point, noticed a nut and were right.
ok, i gotta get busy again - this has really sidetracked my day. i expected a reaction, but not such a strong one, and i didnt plan to have to write the new post till tonight, so i scrambled to get something to put up, and now i have to get busy.
thanks for reading, matt.
oh, and ftr - i'd like a more "arms entwined, united we stand" sort of defense, than the "ignore and it will go away" sort. only cause, as they have shown, they DONT go away. its an old fallacy that doesnt hold true with certain types of bullies, and something more direct and foreceful is sometimes necessary. anything else is weeakness to them, and attacked harder. culling the herd, i bet he considers it.
okay, now i MUST get busy. thank you for reading and supporting, my friend.
Ha. ha.
my thoughts on the subject, much as I wish they were different/a>
fool me once... (and no, it wasn't you, I've been fooled by at least 2 or 3 people not playing)
Just think it was wrong is all. You screwing with people who honestly like(d) you to "teach them a lesson" and some douchebag troll screwing with you to "teach you a lesson" seems to both fall out of the same mold, ya know?
It's not like you were the only person that Joersey Shores/CC/whichevernameheisusingnow has harassed. A lot of us have had knockdown drag outs with his scuzzy ass. You weren't the first nor the last OR the worst.
I don't know all that went down this time, granted, but acting pretty much as bad as he is by "playing" and upsetting people really, kinda sucks, IMO.
'Course, seeing as how you obviously don't care what us "unimportant Internet entities" think or feel, what the hell do you care if I ever went to bat for you or not?
phyllis - christ, you said it all perfectly and quickly. thank you. if i were that eloquent, we might have been spared all of this.
jw - put in a good word for me. i think he was hurt when he thought i had been faking all these years. but i HAD to make this point, bc my hurt was so big i wasnt getting over it. and this was the only way i could think of to SHOW that we really do know each other, in hopes that i CAN remain on this site, feeling, as phyllis said, that my friends would stick up for me, though, frankly, i dont expect the need to arise again.
mical - my whole point is the exact opposite of what you say, actually. not to show that people dont know anybody, but to point out that in fact we DO know each other. i dont know how to be clearer than i have been on that.
mattie - i will respect your right to believe that. if you will respect mine to respectfully disagree.
jt - if thats how yo view this, you didnt read carefully. but you make an excellent case for the "one post trumps 4 years of knowledge and all memory is lost" phenomenon i mentioned earlier.
jules - i am not playing here. none of it was a game. it was to show those who pretend we dont know each other that we in fact DO know each other, and that to continue asserting that we dont is very hurtful. will read that post after i am finish reading here.
me and he are equal to anyone incapable of believing their own sanity, to anyone unable to form an opinion, of course we are equal. thats exactly what i am saying.
me and him are the same. you are all exactly as hurt as i was when no one spoke up for months and weeks and years. you feel just the same, right? sure. thats why you are all gonna rush to close your accounts, cause you are scared now, right?
oh wait, no.
we arent the same AT ALL and i have no desire to interact with people who cant tell the difference. i am changing my standards, and will have as friends only those who can think and ponder and forumlate, and anyone whose conclusion is we are the same isnt worth my time.
and how you could take away that i think of anyone as an internet entity when the WHOLE FUCKING POINT is to say we are NOT just internet entities, blows me away.
please go feel outraged elsewhere.
I just didn't like the trick. Which it was to me and clearly others, regardless of your assertions.
I wish for you all good things going forward, for you and yours, janie, single parenting is tough, I've been there....if that actually is your life. But now, I'll never quite believe any of what you say, regardless if I ever did, that's why I didn't like the trick.
Life's too short.
I'd rather read personal essays that actually are.
amy? sorry. gonna just delete you now, 'kay? cause i am not a non-deleter. i dont think my personal self-worth is bound up in giving someone i dont like, who doesnt like me, airtime on my personal space here, okay?
and it took a trick, you know why? cause saying OVER AND OVER AND OVER "but we DO know each other" didnt get heard. nobody heard me.
but if we DONT know each other, then why would someone be hurt if i had lied about who i am? who cares is some AVATAR lied? but we ARENT just avatars, no matter how convenient it might be to pretend so when the going gets sticky.
if people arent getting that and taking it instead as a silly prank, i cant change that. thanks for your good wishes, and ditto.
dont YOU, completely objectively, find it interesting that you would immediately discount that? dont you wonder why ONE blog, that has been explained till i am blue in the face now, would negate what you have KNOWN all along?
For whatever reasons, it is like you recognize them right away and then the magic begins. Many of us ..gee, again...long timers have met somebody who has met somebody else on this site.
Many of us find each other online at various other sites as well.
I grant ya this. I don't think any of us are great enough writers to maintain more than one or two blogs as alters without many finding out about them. Or maybe there is one or two.
But in the end it seems secrets come out on this site more often than we know.
And that's the problem with determined stalkers. They come at us armed with information on not only us but our children and kin as well.
I have always said anyone is free to write under any version of any name and avatar they feel like here. They can blog anything they want. The site is free.
I don't know the fallout from this social experiment yet.
I think many are suffering feelings of betrayal and anger to some extent.
May this long comment of mine show my feelings but let me end it with this.
May we all see the person behind the avatar and realize some words hurt.
And seek some peace and understanding and togetherness.
Where ever that may be.
I think this is a good lesson for all of us. We come here on trust, and we stay around because we have a good time here. And it is possible to get our feelings hurt- I have- because we are all human.
The thing I really like about OS, though, is that I can back up, type and delete and edit until I get it out of my system, and then post and get my point across. If all else fails, I make up a story about having sex.
I wish real life worked like that.
The crux of it about your writing for me, I never did know. Nothing personal, just about the writing. Maybe I didn't read you day after day enough...
And again, it's not four years for me. Not even close for me reading you. Or being on OS reading anyone.
For me, the 'trust,' as far as that goes, is about consistency in mood and writing, and no, I admit I never quite knew you were you, but I enjoyed what I read until you stated you were someone else. Now the fallout from that declaration is there. I'm not judging it, I just can tell even less what is up over here. No biggie, this isn't the only page I read like that for me and it might be just me anyway.
As far as being consistent goes, I even wonder this about my own writing, as my life has veered wildly from one style of life to another, from east coast to west, from fashion designer to visual merchandiser to engineering draftsperson to hippie mama to homeschooler to research-and-mid-age-crisis-lady living in exile/er, the mountains/Oregon....I sometimes ask myself: do I seem like the same voice in my writing?
Can anyone tell the quill is the same writer each post?
Some of us are better than others here at the consistency in mood and writing that leads to trusting who we read is who they say they are...some here? who knows, even if it is consistent seeming...
just another day here at Open Salon.
Again, best to you, janie.
phyllis - sorry. its just about the only place i have been today. will go remedy that immediately.
Welcome back Jane, or Sue, or Mark, whatever your name is, we still love ya!!! ~nods and wanders off~
yummm! and thanks, tink. you know how much you and the cat mean to me.
~grope~
That felt better.
In the RedAlert thread, I proposed we either all be prepared to accept what's written here as the truth or conversely, accept that everything written here is fantasy otherwise it'll get to be a nasty, uncomfortable place.
I'd have preferred not to know that you'd used OS as a petri-dish for your psycho-drama experiments. I hope you realize you may have hurt people's feelings.
That said, you came up with some believable characters and are a good writer...
amy - if you continue to cut and paste, you are a more strident ass than i already thought. i think you said your piece pretty well - should i delete all of your comments? i think you had your say. but if you want to get into some delete and pasting match, by alkl means, for fiucks sake, i am sure it is worth it to you, given the deep bond we have held all these years, yes?
When people we think we know, do something contrary to our understanding of who they are, something forever changes in the relationship. If I am reading this correctly, when you were attacked, you were hurt because people you thought cared about you, didn't defend you as you thought they should. After reading your last post, and this one, I wondered if the troll was also a test and you attacked yourself to see who your friends are. But, that is most likely my imagination running away with me. But that kind of questioning is, (and I know this from experience) what happens when we start playing with the truth. Everything we thought we knew becomes suspect.
Good luck with all this.
:-)
MM - thank you. thank you from the bottom of me cold cold heart. you are my friend too, and i dont even think of os as imaginary - the people i spoke to today are almost all people i know more about than, say, an average co-worker. and EVeryong here knows more about me than most of my real lifers. thanks for your kind words. love and hugs to everyone who gets it, and to anyone who doesnt, well - i guess thats the way life goes, right?
Yes, we have no idea who is on the other end of the internet. I've had that proved to me on more than one occasion. But usually I assume what I don't know about people are deliberate omissions--aspects of ourselves we choose not to reveal. We all have them. But deliberate fabrications? That's a step beyond.
I don't like feeling as if I'm on the other end of an experiment with any number of sock-puppet-artificial people who might or might not be having a conversation with me.
I shouldn't feel hurt or betrayed. This isn't a real friendship in the sense of real flesh-and-blood people who I might meet in the real world, or share kid stories with, or send a Christmas card to. Many people I've met on OS and elsewhere, even if we haven't met in real life, I feel a real-world connection with. However, I do feel hurt and betrayed.
This experience leaves me with a bad taste. I'm sorry, but it does. I don't find it amusing. If it is actual research, I don't find it particularly rigorous or well-conducted. I would also question if it is or was ethical.
Wandering off to scratch her froggy head and ponder...
Deliberate deception is a deal-breaker in my book. No matter how short or long the duration. This whole thing makes me sad.
So, I can't tell, was your fraud part of a research project or not? If it was, "research" has certainly changed since I was in grad school. Seriously - how can you have any sort of controls on your data -- or assume any validity-- when you are looking at the reactions of a bunch of avatars who might be as fictional in their posts and projected personalities as you have been? But like I said, I have failed the reading comprehension test by failing to find anything comprehensible in your last two posts. Maybe you aren't really doing a dissertation.
This is all just very strange. I've been reading OS less and less lately, and I just might be done. Not that I expect anyone to care. Good luck with whatever the hell it is you are trying to do.
there was one no-good news post I remember distinctly though. when there was some mention of her smacking her kid and that she feared doing it again. some in others in comment commiserated, said poor mommy, it's a hard life. that I reacted too.
in a pm to miss janie. saying protect your kid. get thee to shrink asap. i never heard back . i think my advice would still apply.
i don't buy the sociology experiment either. unless there is a diploma for, ______ well, I'll leave it at that.
and again - great strong liberal thinking. 4 years? 12 hours? all the same to me, hey, cause i take foolish stands without thinking.
iu am past caring. i just hope that MAYBE if this does one thing, it makes you all think twice before you turn away the next time a supposed "friend" is in need.
cause if none of us are friends, why are we here?
AZ - there was no research. and i am really too tired to explain it all again, but since you dont read me anyway, it doesnt really matter, does it? but sure thanks for weighing in.
scarlett - if you read carefully, you'd see there is no experiment. but good to know that after 4 years of writing, thats your takeaway. thanks too, for weighing in. means a lot - to know how sincere you are, and how you reached out in a time of need to an "oh poor mommy." i cant imagine why i didnt respond, huh? but glad you are all well and stable....
And Matt, just admit it, you're Jane, who is Diary!!!
And...OH GOD, YOU PEOPLE MAKE MY HEAD HURT!! ~runs off stage in tears~
(P.S. MATT/JANE/WHOMEVER ---- tell your daughter to hand over her laptop to me!! I WANNA PLAY MARIO WORLD!!!! What?> Hello??? DAMN YOU ALL TO PLANET GONADS!!!!)
Jane, "luv" (if I may risk that seeing you don't know me at all and I don't want to get into "gender wars"), I am OLD.