First off, I am fond of Fusun Atalay, despite the furor over her comment and the following dust up that paints this thing as all one way or the other. She has never written a word to me that smacked of racism or anti-Semitism. I feel, and this is my own opinion forged from the vitriol that has ensued, she tried to do something that failed miserably and instead of thinking it through and making the proper corrections or additions to explain the point of view she was hurt and lashed out.
Second, and really this is a tie for first, Sally swift is one of the best contributors to this site and has long been both a favorite and a friend here. I will not and would not contenence and of the trash spewed by our resident right wing troll (whom I still suspect is someones alter ego) .
What was said by the whole group is that bigotry is okay as long as you share my personal prejudices, refering to the attackers and not the authors. I find it odd that certain nom des plumes only seem to appear when they find fresh blood floating around here too.
Here's the thing for me, I can't see any difference between the the two, RW's hate and all of the other hate. I see people that I respected and thought were my friends here lashing out with all of the vitriol and bigotry of a Klansman. The only difference in my eyes is that one used a foul and offensive term for a particular race and religion and the others used epithets that define those who hold those as pure, pre meditated evil.
Both are meant to strip the hide from the hated persons, to deny their humanity. To demean and belittle and promote hate of the targeted ones. Well forgive me for thinking that it is hatred that is evil and not caring who is the hater or the hated. We are all deserving of a chance to see the errors of our ways and I include myself in the ranks of the imperfect.
Sally, I love you and I hope you don't see this as supporting any form of hate but, if you choose to disown me then I will be very sorry because I value your friendship, Fusun, I think that you tried to make a point but, like so many of my own words, the triggers to anger were involved and despite the desire to communicate you were tricked into a false position. I do not believe your intentions were understood by most and the few that wanted to spill some blood began puttting ideas into your words that fit their needs.
Holly, you may agree with EP2 but I find her to be as bigoted as anyone here and find that the use of a false identity is most often to keep the real person from being known. The only way that she could be totally correct here is if she lives inside the mind of Fusun and that is not possible.
Assumptions are almost always incorrect and the rare occasions when they do jibe with reality are no more than luck. So rip me apart, do what you want, unlike many of you I don't edit my comment thread unless it becomes threatening or false.
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Lezlie
I would only add that if an accusation is made about another OSer, please don't assume that it must be true because the accuser is a "friend".
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R♥
Little superior barbs that dig in the craw, and for me, have become more a sign of intolerance than I saw in the beginning.
The intolerance all around in reaction -- on both sides -- has caused much more pain than the idiotic crap -- comment, then post -- that started it all, in my opinion. It would have disappeared and been gone.
The real bigot has only gotten tons more attention this way and is surely laughing his ass off at the vitriol and hate that has only multiplied.
That's how hate feeds itself.
Me too.
I stepped in the muck here by commenting on rw's post, but I only looked at the porn part and said I'd had enough. Porn people, so what? Jewish or not, I don't care. I wish I'd never clicked in the first place, but too late for that --
I have family that is Jewish, but I take my cues from how they would've acted. They would, and do, roll their eyes and ignore the crap. They know who they are and how bigots will be. I thought Fusun was misunderstood at first too, but after reading much more, I still haven't figured out why she hasn't just said I'm sorry for the misunderstandings all around -- I do get feeling defensive and I've been in this very spot before, where defense feels like your life raft. In this case it's just gotten worse and worse, both sides entrenched and increasingly intolerant, in my opinion.
Negativity feeds on this and grows, hate feeds on all this and grows.
Very sad, and so unfortunate as most everyone involved is coming from their own heart, their own view, and seem like good people -- while the real bigot is no doubt reading it all and laughing.
"Here's the thing for me, I can't see any difference between the the two, RW's hate and all of the other hate. I see people that I respected and thought were my friends here lashing out with all of the vitriol and bigotry of a Klansman. The only difference in my eyes is that one used a foul and offensive term for a particular race and religion and the others used epithets that define those who hold those as pure, pre meditated evil."
~r
r.
As for me using a pseudonym instead of my real because I have something to "hide," you couldn't be more wrong. I use it because as OS so aptly demonstrates on a regular basis, crazies come out of the woodwork on the Internet. These crazies do not particularly like women much of the time. I notice that you do not use your real name either. Do you have something to hide?
“Fusun's bigger [mistake, other than just not apologizing for any misunderstandings, was her continued defense, while maybe understandable to her -- while] wrapping victimhood around her like a cloak, writing her defenses with barbs attached." Concentrate on the part out of the square brackets inyour reply.
@ Emma Peel 2: The same is required of you ma'am: Failure to do so will be self incrimination on your part. Remember EXACT quote where [ blamed Sally for mentioning that she was Jewish] in FusunA's own exact words – not your interpretation.
“Instead she has blamed Sally for mentioning that she was Jewish -- the thinking being that rwnutjob would not have been "forced" into his anti-Semitic rant had Sally not said that -- which is itself another defense of what rwnutjob said and more blaming the victim.”
Thank you.
I wrote: (partial excerpt)
"Having read it over and over, I see that she (Sally) could have simply written, “We go there a lot, often [on non-Jewish holidays] when we have no family gatherings to celebrate.”Leaving out the detail in [brackets], unless, subconsciously she was inviting people like rwnutjob to come out of the woodwork. But that's neither here nor there, and I'd be the last one to sound censorial."
If you are looking for NO reference to religion, there you have it.
This NOT to condone or support the comment of rwnutjob, whom I read for the for time on Sally's post. QUOTE
I am surprised that you did not see this quote more than once since you are certain she is being misquoted.
Thank you, open-minded people. Has it gotten through, yet?
"Let me see if I got this straight:
Sally Swift writes a post about gun violence that makes no reference to race or religion. Some moron posts a blatantly anti-Semitic comment in response. Amazingly, some people are not aghast. "
Pointing a to a specific reference to religion - whatever religion it may be - to provide the information asked on a a comment hardly makes a person an anti-Semi. And if you remove your own biases, you will see that there is no blame of the said person in pointing to something the poster wrote. It's simply stating a fact for the benefit of that other one who didn't read it carefully in the first place.
The rest of your rant is moot.
Thank you, Sir.
Rated with utmost respect .
I find it odd that of all the commenters in this brouhaha, you go right after emma peel. I assure you, the fusun persona does not need protection from big bad emma, but going after emma is always just so convenient, isn't it? Even more odd is your criticism of her fictitious moniker, which you also have.
You've always seemed like a nice person but I think you are misdirected this time. Peace.
You either don't know how to read what was right before you in print, or you chose not to see the “religious reference” so you were lost. That offends you, I see.
Now think the hundred fold of insults, far worse than being called a “lost soul”, hurled at FusunA by so many of you self righteous liars. How do you think she must have felt? Did you think she might have been celebrating the fact that she is being used as a scapegoat by you delusional people who have nothing better to do than crawl out of your holes in drones just to slander a highly respected and scholarly person who is well liked and read by many here?
When did any of you pay a visit to one of her erudite posts?
When was the last time any of you posted anything half as intelligent, rational, warm, educational and engaging as she does?
Quote me a single swear word she uses in any of her responses to your idiotic allegations. Don't bother searching - you won't find any. You're better off crawling back under your rocks.
I'm done here.
I was a regular reader of Fusun's blog until we had a falling out. I own a copy of her book.
When I said "no reference to race or religion," I was talking about the content of her blog, not a passing reference to Jewish holidays.
I have been called much worse than "lost soul." I once had a guy start an OS membership just so he could me an asshole in comments.
The sum total of your reply to me should have been, "I'm sorry. I shouldn't have called you a lost soul when I was complaining myself about name-calling. I should have just written, 'a blogger named Cranky Cuss who wrote.' I apologize." But you're obviously too pompous to do that.
And BTW, you spelled my name wrong. There's no 'e' in Cranky.
Feel free to say whatever you want about me after this, because I am not returning.