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Bernadine Spitzsnogel

Bernadine Spitzsnogel
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All material on "The Raven Lunatic" blog is copyrighted by the author. Author of "The Luxury of Daydreams"--available on amazon and all major book sites.

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Salon.com
Editor’s Pick
JUNE 26, 2012 2:40PM

Some Women Can Have It All

Rate: 38 Flag
ATLANTIC 071

When my new ” Atlantic” came with the “Why Women Can’t Have it All” article by Anne-Marie Slaughter, I predicted this would be all the rage between Those Who Have and Those Who Have More.

Slaughter was featured on MSNBC and NPR, and countless other places.  Andrea Mitchell said on her noon show that Slaughter caused a firestorm. Her article is one of the most liked articles ever on Facebook.

Yes, we’ll have this discussion again. 

Yes, I’ve weighed in on it often for the last twenty-two years since I became a mother who works outside the home.  (I refuse to use the term “working mother” to describe someone who is paid for her work.)

But this entire discussion from Slaughter’s perspective entirely misses the point.

Yes, I understand her anguish.  Slaughters has a husband who is an educator (as do I). Slaughters felt that working in DC and coming home on weekends was not meeting the needs of her two sons.

Well, duh.

I think it is impressive that she served our country and made a contribution. Of course a woman with her cache and education could and will do better in the private sector.

My point is that her article is unquestionably about choice, and choice is what most American women do not have.  

Frankly, many men don’t have choices either.  Feminism isn't necessarily all about women. That is another topic for another day.

According to College Times, “Women account for 46% of the labor force, but 59% of workers making less than $8 an hour. What does it mean? It means that many women are taking on jobs that pay well under a living wage. With nearly 16% of U.S. households having women who are divorced, widowed or never married as the sole providers, this leaves many women at a distinct disadvantage and struggling to make ends meet as they dominate jobs in low paying fields.”  http://collegetimes.us/10-surprising-statistics-on-women-in-the-workplace/

When my only child was young, I was climbing up a corporate ladder.  The year he entered college, I was thrown off the ladder along with 4,000 of my closest colleagues during the worst month of “The Great Recession.”  Say good-bye to the Six-Figure Job, fleet vehicle and Rolls-Royce insurance plan.

Do I have regrets about my choice to climb the ladder? Maybe. 

Did I have choices? Yes.

While it would have meant a marked decrease in the way we lived, technically I could have stayed home with my child when he was younger.  My contribution to our family savings kept us out of difficulty when that gig ended.

Most people do not have these choices.

I think Slaughters’ article is disingenuous and she speaks for a very small segment of our society.  Ask the woman who works at the local dry cleaners if she has a choice?  Unless she owns the business, I’m guessing she doesn’t.

Let’s not waste time on this debate.  Let’s put our efforts toward improving health care access and educational resources that lift everyone up.

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My exact thoughts after reading the article. This article is for a certain segment of the population. A small segment.
Your last two sentences are so very wise. ~r
Well the magazine is, more likely than not, including articles for their readership demographics. I would guess that your reaction is among the minority of "Atlantic" readers.
Yeah, she's preachin' to the choir, a chorus of well-off ladies who can choose to use go lunch if they want, while au pairs stay to watch the children and do housework, and gardeners manicure the lawns. Most of us didn't have the "choice" of working or not, we worked because our families had to have our incomes to scrape along and survive, hoping things would get better someday...
You always make so much sense.

And the abortion debate is not a debate for the families who can go out of state or country to end pregnancies.



r.
Outstanding post!!! It's been my experience that women are their own worst enemies in the corporate world. When I left one of my many corporate management positions my incompetent male boss's boss was a woman (unfortunately a full of shit old guard I'm a tough gal incompetent woman) wh0 asked me to mentor another woman who worked with me as a supervisor. I did my best for her not because she was a woman, nor because of the incompetent female VP's request, but because she was intelligent, educated, hard working, competent and honest and deserved every chance for advancement that the company could provide. As I navigated these uncertain waters I relied on the advice of my ex-wife, another intelligent, educated, hard working, competent and honest woman with decades of management experience in finance.

When the lay offs came down, I volunteered to leave my job and asked my new competent male boss to hire the woman I'd trained to take it. He asked asked me to stay on and wanted to understand why I was determined to leave. I replied, "I was hired in as a contractor and in the three years since I went direct, I've had six different bosses. There are people here who need the benefits and wages that go with their jobs. They've got children who need health insurance, kids going to college and mortgages to pay. I don't have family or debt and I can work anywhere. Give my job to someone who needs it."
You have found the flaw in the discussion and exposed the truth. Choice makes all the difference. R
You summed it up perfectly./r
Choice is what makes the difference in everything. Those that have the benefit of choice do sometimes seem to forget about those that are not as fortunate. Most people are one health crisis or career setback away from those currently struggling...
r./
I'm with you, Amy. I have no idea how a person can support a family on $8/hour. They'd have to work round the clock and on weekends. Insane and inhumane.
Hmmmm. I've just gone and read the article. Slaughter said this:
"I am well aware that the majority of American women face problems far greater than any discussed in this article. I am writing for my demographic—highly educated, well-off women who are privileged enough to have choices in the first place. We may not have choices about whether to do paid work, as dual incomes have become indispensable. But we have choices about the type and tempo of the work we do. We are the women who could be leading, and who should be equally represented in the leadership ranks."

To me she is saying that we, as women as a whole, are between a rock and a hard place. The only solution to our struggle for equity with men is to have more women in government, preferably President and Congress, who can change the culture so that all women, not just those who have work-or-not-work choices, are brought to parity in earnings, workplace considerations, etc. with men.

One of the first tips I learned about writing was to first identify your audience. Slaughter did that. She was talking about women like her who are educated, talented, connected and well-mated who are still finding it difficult to balance motherhood and service.

What I find interesting about her POV is what seems like her undlying assumption that her son's problems are a) due to her absence and b) fixable by her being at home more. Why do we assume that a father can't do that?

Lezlie
Lez, thanks for weighing in. I guess I'm just too cynical about her real intent. Or her naivete. At one point she talks about well-being as important as wages. Maybe in her world, but not in most.

I agree with you on fathers, another story for another day. Feminism is not just a female issue. Some women will not trust their partners if they are lucky enough to have a good one, and that again is an entirely different issue.
When coming to having choices, I think the word democracy, is out of the discussion. Having to make a living, with the way to make a living, is an insanity on its own, and to me is not a gender issue, it is a human issue. Very argumentative and thought giving, thank you
Anne-Marie Slaughter's problem is one I'll worry about later, when it's the most pressing one I can identify.

Whatever else is going on, though, we've allowed someone else to define the "all" we want to have. Women whose lives are far different from ours still have hard choices to make; they're just not as often about money.
Amen! Nodded so much my neck hurts. ANd an EP! Excellent and rated as such. Insightful as always! Thanks Amy!
This is an excellent presentation on what was wrong with Slaughter's article and too much of the discussion about it. I happen to attend my grandson's graduation from public preschool yesterday and blogged about it. Excellent public early childhood care is what is needed. When teachers face massive layoffs, that isn't going to happen.

That is the only way excellent child care will be a possibility for most women who need to work. I think Early Childhood Educators have a more decisive impact on their students' lives than high school or college teachers.
Thank you and Amen.
It's especially grating in this economy.
I didn't read the article. I read a few pundit's worth of quotations from the article and their thoughts on it. And I think you hit the nail on the head. This 'poor' woman's conundrum was all about the fact that she was in a position to choose. Many women as well as many men (such as myself) do not.

My wife is the sole earner in my household. Up until recently I was basically Mr. Mom. Since my daughter moved out three years ago, I have had to contend with figuring out how to make the day not be so tedious, onerous and depressing with more day than energy, money or opportunity to flex my mental muscles.

In order for us to create more jobs, increase the choices of the American worker or workers who wish to work, we must find ways to bring manufacturing, labor, and technical industry jobs back to America.

Let's face it. While there is definitely a "War on Women," and a "War on Education," higher education isn't for everyone. Those with it, however, are now having to compete for many more working class and service sector jobs that not only do not need a higher education, but will tell you if you have it, "I'm sorry, we don't think you'll be happy in this position," or that you're, "overqualified."

While women definitely face more challenges to working and having children, we all must start to face the reality of a country that is being made more and more like a third world unindustrialized semi-agrarian society (except that giant Agri-Business is taking that choice from us as well,) that makes more of us compete for jobs that won't provide for a single person, much less a family.

I don't feel bad for women in that elite portion of our population that worries about having it all. I'd be happy if I could just have what I used to. All the while I get to hear the pundits tell me we all have to make sacrifices and tighten our belts.

My belt is tighter and that means, like when I was working two jobs and going to college, I hardly eat meat because I cannot afford it, and I don't go out to the movies, eat at a restaurant (not even fast food) and I don't have any new clothes that I don't absolutely have to have.

My how I wish I could have to face the conundrum of "having it all."

--r--
Yes to everything you said. The omission of privilege in this conversation is infuriating.
I don't disagree that issues of health care access and educational resources are more pressing. But I also think there are a lot of women who struggle with issues of balancing career with motherhood, in particular with being able to follow an upward career path while still being a good and engaged parent. The fact that they have choices shouldn't mean that we completely disregard that struggle or the issues surrounding it--at least unless we're willing to give up most of those senior and/or power positions to men. It may be an old issue, but I don't think it's one that should be quite so easily dismissed.
I'm just looking forward to having my car paid off by March, hopefully earlier, so I can stash the money away for a while. Choice would be great. A vacation away from my house would be better. I do get tired of well off women in articles about their lives and the way they can just up and change them because they want to.
is this an old article or a new one? I guess Im thinking of an article from a few yrs back where a woman argued in favor of "settling" that caused another firestorm.... by the way this reminds me a lot of the anne romney brouhaha of a few months ago.....
I would argue that the insane demands of the jobs that net you well over 100K$/year trickle down expectations of the average worker. To get ahead, get promoted, you have to show devotion to your career and company at the expense of your family. Women often choose not to make that choice and end up in dead end jobs, whether they be in a nice, but not corner office earning a decent wage or struggling for 8$/hour
Yep. She nods to her privilege in the article, but somebody who does not have such resources would write the whole thing from a very different perspective. For one thing, who defines"having it all"? Didn't we get past this superwoman vision when we saw the last of that "I can bring home the bacon" commercial?

When I saw the cover of the issue, I just rolled my eyes. I'm not only cynical; I'm really sick of trend stories in which writers claim "shock" that their feminist values have let them down and that they're compelled to speak out now in order to expose the truth. Just to be newsy, I feel like the same editor has been writing the same nut graf in these big Atlantic flap stories for at least a year.

Beyond the inability of most Americans to wrestle with such a choice, this is a particularly dreary entry in the Atlantic's "Ideas" issue. Why not talk about how the "having it all" trope affects both men and women, and is a problematic ideal for anybody who wants to do more than work 24/7? I'd say it's time to question the corporate religion of productivity more than anything else.

Rated!
an amen from this corner, too!
Your last sentence says it all.
I haven't read the article, mainly because I don't want to let it freak me out as I step up to the diving board that is a new chapter in my life: having kids. I guess what I've been telling myself, and what I do believe, is that maybe we can have it "all" - it's just a matter of perspective and juggling. The mother of two of my tutoring clients, for example,is a professionally successful career woman who lives with her family in one of the wealthiest neighborhoods in Paris. Though she works long hours and sometimes has to go abroad for business, I've never seen someone so openly affectionate with her sons, and so happy to spend time with her kids after a long day. Her teenage boys are polite, respectful,and give off a vibe of knowing that they're loved and appreciated. Maybe their mom isn't always there, but her kids are so well-adjusted and great. She can't be everywhere all at once, and I'm sure she's made sacrifices, but for me, her life seems to work - this is a woman who has "it all" and it will hopefully and probably get even easier for her to juggle as her kids get older. Maybe that's the other thing - having it "all" maybe doesn't mean that it has to be right away; even if many women have to struggle to balance work and personal life, maybe that's only for the first two decades or so of their kids' lives, and then it gets easier (though as my own mom points out, you never stop being a parent, of course). Whew! Thank you for this insightful commentary and also for getting me to work through some thoughts here - I hadn't planned on that.
Amen, sister. Especially the "choices" that are non-negotiable sometimes...
AMEN! I am here to witness. Great piece, and pretty much what I thought about the article.
I feel the same way about the so-called Mommy Wars. Same point - most women do not have a choice, they have to work to support a family. But you are reading The Atlantic - its demographic is more likely to encompass women who actually have a choice, so the magazine chooses fluff over substance to the detriment of all.
Outstanding and so well said. My sentiments were mixed after reading Slaughters piece, due to many reasons. I am one of few women I know who made a choice early on, to NOT reproduce due to hardship. I never had a family and therefore no support network. I was also in a really bad marriage. These factors made me choose the sensible path and I wish many others had also chosen to remain childless by choice. We are not addressing the issues regarding the 7 billion on our planet which directly affect economic, social, ecological and all other issues. We cannot expect a job for all, we cannot expect food for all and we cannot expect a great world for all to live in when there are so many of us vying for the exact same things. I've never regretted not bringing another person into this troubled world and unless we start a dialogue about this, nothing is going to resolve.
Having fallen flat on my you-know from quite a few collapsing ladders in my day...Bravo! This article is what happens when we all choose to live in a bubble. Now that HR's across the country have moved lock, stock and job opportunities into that same bubble with them, we all need to start carrying pins with us on job interviews. Nice pin, Amy...Nice pin...
@Alysa: In fairness, though, doesn't France have a wonderful social system set up to help women, children and families? That's what I've heard for years now. Also, I do believe you have the right attitude about life, work and family. Women are physically equipped to bring children into the world, and we are thinking, productive beings at the same time. We are, as it were, the ultimate multitaskers. What else is new? We should be able to handle it all at once, shouldn't we?
No need for one more comment on the obvious privilege of the author of the article. I would hope that people reading this thread take another look at Alysa's comment. There are many issues, cultural and biological, that affect the ability of women to work outside the home. Some huge ones you mentioned--the lack of resources for families as part of our social structure. Inadequate childcare, poor or no access to healthcare, bad schools, and so on. Obviously, there are some problems that cannot be fixed while we lack social resources while requiring that most mothers work.

There is also something unstated in these discussions having to do with American child raising practices among the privileged. We went from whatever you'd call the strict, repressive child raising philosophy of my parents' generation, to a new paradigm of hovering parents. It might come as a shock, but the rest of the world doesn't raise their kids that way. Foreign kids learn that they are not the center of the universe, and they therefore have less angst. They are not catered to. They do not have dedicated chauffeurs. They are shown a lot physical affection rather than told they are special. They love their siblings and enjoy their company. (I was shocked as a kid from a different cultural background at American sibling rivalry.) They are simply more independent and their parents don't feel as guilty because their child-rearing expectations are not impossible to meet. Kids are expected to contribute, not be trapped in prolonged infancy.

Guilt is what this author is talking about, and it is not just the privileged white woman who feels it. Any working woman in the U.S. is vulnerable to feeling like an inadequate parent because we have unrealistic standards that underestimate the capacity for resiliency and independence of kids. Maybe the author's son suffers from some mental condition that requires diagnosis and attention. At 13, I was a similar mess, and my mom hovering (which was inconceivable) would not have helped. Kids do better learning coping skills, which requires that parents trust in their ability to step up and take part in their own care.

I distrust this new child rearing model and suspect it is a way to expand the demands of motherhood and make it harder for women to leave the home. It looks to me like a revision and extrapolation of the 50's domestic bliss myth, the one featuring a satisfied, coiffed, high-heeled suburban mom who baked. To solve this issue, we need to look at what kids can contribute, not just what they need.
I keep wondering what "having it all" even means.
I haven't read the article yet, but I was raised in the environment of having it all- upper middle class Long Island and Connecticut. Most of the women I knew growing up had careers, not just jobs, and successful husbands, smart athletic and good looking children, a second home, housekeeping, and pretty decent family life. It was how it was, not really an aspiration. But, I don't live in that world and my own family could not provide me the means to stay there. I have had to let go of almost all the hopes, dreams and expectations I grew up with in order to survive, which is a loss for me in many ways. I have a career, and have been told repeatedly from men who don't have my background, that that likely is what kept me single. Where I came from, it would have been expected. I don't have it all, not even close, and am just glad I didn't choose single parenthood and poverty. While those aren't the only other options, I didn't get much other choice, either.
Congrats on the editor's pick. Great article. R
"My point is that her article is unquestionably about choice, and choice is what most American women do not have..." thank you.

re: the "women having it all" conversation, the sentence itself is dysfunctional. no one can have it all because then there's nothing for anybody else.

great article, thanks for writing.