CHRONIC SENSE

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Annie Keeghan

Annie Keeghan
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Massachusetts,
Birthday
May 15
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Editor, educational consultant, and writer with a novel looking for a good home.

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JANUARY 13, 2012 1:11PM

Marines Urinating on Corpses—What the Video Doesn’t Show

Rate: 31 Flag

Soldier-Crying

I was getting ready to post another blog, one more lighthearted than the last that received so much attention and inspired some great dialogue (thank you!). But then I heard on the news that marines were videotaped urinating on the dead corpses of alleged Taliban insurgents and I felt compelled to write about that instead, to shed some light on another layer of war’s impact, a hidden layer embedded somewhere between all those battle lines.

When I saw that video, my first reaction wasn’t outrage or condemnation.  It was worse than that; it was sadness.  Outrage and condemnation would be more convenient, easier to feel and easier to justify, easier to forget by next week’s news cycle.  Such emotions would provide me a higher moral ground, a sense of principle amidst the disgust; they’d also require little thought beyond the images and what they appear to portray.  Certainly our leaders expressed their outrage and condemnation—Leon Panetta, Hillary Clinton, et al.  But they know better, better than any of us, even if they won’t admit so publicly.  Sadness, even concern for our troops? That’s a bit more complex, requires a lot more explanation and attention to what we’re doing to the young men and women that we send into combat. To feel sadness, we have to think about what the images do not so readily portray.

My second reaction to the news was wondering why we’re all so surprised, why we expect that these men and women, who must carry out duties they cannot decline—living in a state of constant hyper-vigilance, performing acts that none of us can imagine, suffering sleep deprivation and questioning their safety more hours of the day than not, watching their comrades blown to bits in front of them, watching innocent children and families suffering—why we expect that they won’t break, won’t seek out perverse forms of release, at least perverse in the context that we enjoy living in a world that is far safer than theirs, safer in large part due to the very same people that we have, for centuries, sent into combat.

It’s just all a bit more complicated than simple outrage. 

I don’t believe the actions on the video are those typical of our military, but I do think they’re probably more prevalent than we realize, than we’d like to admit sitting in our living rooms without fear of IEDs or wondering if those who appear harmless are in fact dangerous and vice versa.  We have no idea what these young men and women live out on a daily basis, many so young that they’ve experienced only a short span of adulthood, some with no life experience beyond high school.  We see news clips, we read articles, we see videos, but that’s a two-dimensional world.  These men and women live it out in 3D, 24/7.

A friend of mine, an acupuncturist, opened a clinic three years ago, open every Saturday to provide free treatment to veterans and active military to treat PTSD.  Most know that PTSD is an emotional disorder that presents with a range of symptoms including, though not limited to, sleeplessness, nightmares, flashbacks, hyper-vigilance, and emotional numbing.  What many don’t know is that PTSD is rising at alarming rates among our combat troops still serving and those coming home, troops who have been asked to serve record tours of combat duty under hellish conditions.

I am the only the volunteer of the clinic who is not an acupuncturist.  I write grants to try to secure funding to keep the clinic open.  In doing so, I’ve had to do my research; in order to appeal for funding, I must justify the need for the clinic’s services. And the research has provided me an education both both heartbreaking and frightening.  According to winoverptsd.com (a website run Charlene Rubush, a freelance writer and wife of a Vietnam veteran who suffered with PTSD, her inspiration for spending years researching the disorder):

  •  Lifetime prevalence of PTSD in combat veterans is 10-30%.
  • In 2010, the number of diagnosed cases in the military jumped 50% (and that’s just diagnosed cases).
  • Some studies estimate that 1 in every 5 military member returning from Iraq and Afghanistan suffers with PTSD.
  • 20% of the soldiers who have been deployed in the past six years have PTSD.  That’s over 300,000.

Ilona Meagher, author of the book, Moving A Nation to Care: Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder and America's Returning Troops published in 2007, sets out to illustrate that PTSD is one of the most “catastrophic issues confronting our nation” and that “nearly 20 percent of the over half million troops that have left the military since 2003 have been diagnosed with PTSD.”  And, again, that’s just the diagnosed cases, related in data that is now at least 4 years old.

It gets worse.

A Texas A & M University study (January 2011) concludes that there is more of a direct link between PTSD and suicide than previously thought. And, according to a U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs study (January 2010), 18 veterans a day commit suicide, on average.  The Veteran’s Administration reports that suicide rates among veterans ages 18 to 29 climbed 26% between 2005 and 2007, the most current statistics available.  Additionally, veteran suicides account for about 20 percent of the nation's 30,000 suicides each year.

Men and women receive mental health screening before they are allowed to enlist in the military.  They must be physically and mentally fit to serve, after all.  We don’t seem to be quite so concerned about their mental health once we place them into combat, however. A Time magazine article in 2006 reported that the military has been using anti-depressants and anti-anxiety medications to help soldiers cope in the battlefield (even though taking such medication is often a disqualifying factor for enlisting). These men and women aren’t returned to their family—their parents and siblings, their spouses and children—in the same condition as the military found them. Yet we expect different, we expect that their disciplined training prepared them for the fight, the stress, the trauma, the conflicts of conscience. But what could possibly prepare anyone for such trauma, the repeated and insidious form that unfolds in war?

Men and women who have served in Iraq and Afghanistan are returning to us with not only record numbers of physical wounds (most markedly the number of amputees), but an unprecedented number of invisible wounds, the mental and the emotional. At the clinic, this is seen firsthand every Saturday. But what really drives the point home, at least for me, is what is witnessed with the older clients, veterans of other wars who are still bearing the effects of PTSD and trauma decades later. After receiving several weekly treatments, the wife of a veteran who served during the Korean conflict reported that he’d slept through the night for the first time since returning to her from the battlefield. Try to imagine that for a moment, if you can.  A night free of frightening dreams and flashbacks, a night free of waking up in a sweat, calling out the name of long-dead friend, a night of peace for the first time in over 50 years. 

So again, I ask—why is it that we are all so surprised? 

 

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trauma, ptsd, combat, war, news

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I'm not surprised but I do thank you for taking the time in shedding some light on the issues military families face daily. They deserve only the best in life. To do do anything less says a lot about society.
Thanks for your insights. I wasn't really sure how I felt about the whole thing. Whenever I hear about something like this, my first thought is always the same...this is something I wish I didn't know. The ubiquity of youtube and instant videography can be so damaging, particularly in a war zone where, as you say, people are operating under extreme duress.
Very sad story, but as you said, why are we surprised? If we have not lived a day, a week, a month, a year or more in their shoes, how can we know what trauma they have endured? I'm with bluestocking babe, this is a story I wish I hadn't heard about.
Lord of the Flies? What's the difference? Zero, as its part of who we are, like it or not, if you don't want to let that Heart of Darkness run things either.
@Annie Keeghan

Sad it really is the one word that sums it all up.
I'd made this comment on another blog about this event (http://open.salon.com/blog/toritto/2012/01/12/the_desecration_of_the_dead#comment_2774733)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Us or them, humanity has a long, long way to go and really, it's not all that likely it will get there. Jejune and vzn make points here: When it's codified into some agreement about what sort of methods are OK to dismember, maim and kill, we call it "The Geneva Convention" and hold it up as an example of how noble we are, compared to those before us or those who don't play by our rules. Thing is, no matter what, the rules are always made to benefit the abilities of the participants and conceal, with dubious intent, the fact that we can justify turning other human beings into compost before their time would otherwise come.

We can put medals on the people who ordered it and vaguely participated, while ginning up the publicity mill (true or false - Pat Tillman) about the heroics some poor son-of-a-bitch performed so we can use his traumatized existence as another excuse for a politician to make a speech. All the while the assholes who put him (or her) in that position figure out what theu're going to have for lunch at the golf club that day. Piss on all of them.

R
While I cannot condone their actions, I can understand them. I'm glad your clinic is reaching out to veterans of all wars. R
Bravo. And thank you.
While deplorable, it should be understood that warriors have doing this sort of thing forever.
I tried to voice some of these conserns in another blog on the subject but not as well as you have done here. In the past forty years I have had maybe ten nights where I slept through the night without the nightmares. It has gotten a lot better over the past few years though and I can only hope for more quiet nights in the future. This was a well written piece and I want to thank you for writing what needed to be said.
I'm not surprised but I am afraid. As you say, "It gets worse."

I had PTSD from being a pedestrian victim hit by a hit & run driver. I know it's real and these soldiers obviously have it to the extreme.
Every single person who has been there lives with the wreckage, as do their friends and families. Deep, heavy sadness.

I also find it kind of ironic that it's ok to *kill* someone, but not to pee on the corpse. I've never been able to wrap my head around the idea of "rules" of war.
Sorry.... don't buy it at all.....Maybe teachers should piss on lazy-ass students.... and their parents... After all, teachers are under immense"pressure" and not just for a few years ....... See what happens.... I think of ANTIGONE that I taught to students . . . for years. There are NO excuses for abusing standards of decency and respect . . . especially in times of war, which is what our country is supposed to be all about... Woops... that's no longer who we are . . . Sorry. Wrong channel.
P.S. WTF is that picture of the dude crying???????????? Talk about propaganda...
Honestly . . . I'm kind of outraged at this post that OS would give it an EP and cover..... Really.... using this logic.... it's only "natural" that German Nazi's systemically killed, tortured millions of people. They were "stressed." Why should we be surprised? Hello....Nuremberg Trials . . .

The soldiers who did this were WRONG.... just as the Nazi soldiers in WWII were wrong. But the excuse is " we were stressed and tired." Bullshit. And shame on America.
Ms. K. Thanks for a humane discussion. I'm a Korean War vet, and have always believed I couldn't possibly have any kind of PSTD, but I must report that if all these armchair soldiers get all excited about the "incident" , to my mind, I just don't understand them at all. Talk about draft-dodging, Monday morning Quarterbacking , totally oblivous Nitpicking, what the hell are they complaining about?! You can just bet that the former Taliban guys are not complaining. And these oh-so-virtuous compainers are not talking about how come our "Leaders" are even bragging about assassinating all kinds of people, and torturing others, but that is not as pressing as stamping out pissing?! Even the Nazis were not so deluded; at least they didn't admit it!
War is a social environment condoning generalized murder for various reasons and these reasons are under strong doubts by most of the rest of the nation. The people sent into this social chaos are stripped of whatever normal social decencies prevail to permit them to become agents of this totally repugnant behavior. Do not expect them to retain normal social motivations under this enforced insanity nor blame them for the resultant behavior. There is no honor in war.
A nice sentiment, Ms. Keeghan, but I don't think that your suggestion applies in all cases. In my old job, I had a director who was a military veteran - and in fact, because he knew the right languages, was called back to the Middle East. He was in combat. One of his prize photos was him posing next to a charred corpse of an enemy soldier, smirking and providing a lifted middle finger.

A little lesson for From The Midwest: there is no such thing as honor in a whorehouse, and no such thing as respect on the battlefield. Any such assumptions are derived from movies and novels, not real life. People are that cruel, and not only in war. I won't say this urination incident was specifically cruel, but I won't say it wasn't. It could very easily be either, but I lean towards cruelty.
wait, you're saying war causes trauma on the AGGRESSOR? wtf!! somehow they didnt tell us that 10yrs ago..... reminds me of a CIA term "blowback" that the US public still doesnt seem to know or understand! mooo!
Thank you for the comprehensive description of PTSD. Given where we are today with the education and morality standards going as they are, now mixing that much PTSD into the blue collar ranks, I really wonder what this country will look like in 20 years.
Prevention is better than cure. If we are serious about reducing PTSD, than we should stop engaging in wars of empire and conquest, since most of our US wars have been exactly that. It's bad enough to get PTSD from a necessary defensive war like WWII. It's worse for a war that has no purpose other than imperial arrogance and amorality.
I keep returning to the observation which occurred to me without assistance, but which is certainly not original with me, that peeing on the dead bodies of those who were (presumably) trying to kill you is less significant, and certainly less injurious, than the act of having put these (presumed) enemy combatants to death in the first place. Thus, while not condoning the post mortem disrespect, I am somewhat puzzled at all of this righteous indignation and extreme outrage, despite the fact that I don't find either out of character for Liberals here at OS.

PTSD is seldom in evidence during one's first tour in combat. Being fearful and acting tentatively are certainly behavioral traits more in evidence during an initial tour in a combat zone than in subsequent tours. Further, should symptoms of PTSD become evident following one's first tour in a combat zone, it is likely that one would be assigned to combat support or combat service support duty during subsequent tours. Thus, I don't find much reason to believe that PTSD is the cause for using one's dead enemies as urinals.

Had these Marines placed their boots on the faces of these dead men, this might have been perceived a greater insult by Afghanis than what these Marines did. Again, this is not to excuse the noted behavior. It's just that cultural differences may allow one group to be overly sensitive to a behavior that is more accepted by another.

As a final thought, in the larger context of what was once known as "war", the four “Ds” were followed:

1. war was Declared

2. enemy fighting forces were Destroyed or Detained
(whether one or the other was resistance dependent)

3. civilian populations were Decimated or Dispersed
(whether one or the other was resistance dependent)

4. survivors were Disarmed

Trust me, within the environment of such combat, peeing on three or four dead men wouldn’t be a big deal – again, not that I am excusing or justifying this behavior.
Obviously there isn't any reason to make excuses for behavior from a society that consistently continues to set the example for the world; however I don't think that is what the author is trying to invoke. Instead, perhaps we would better serve our uniformed servicemen and women if we didn't routinely extend deployments, add additional tours of duty and cut funding for those who are subjected to both. This is a real issue and those reading this article need differentiate these two topics and focus on the theme of the article; we as a nation turn a blind eye to the way we treat our active and non active servicemembers.

Citizens do not condone these acts in any regard, but we as an educated and evolved society need to think beyond the act and instead discet the cause. This is what this article is doing and for that, we should applaud this effort. God bless and Godspeed to all troops coming home. Great article.
Read
http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/01/13/the-grim-implications-of-obamas-new-defense-plan/

It's quite evident that sending the US military out into the world to attain and defend the economic domination of the corporate elite is firming up to be a permanent dominant feature of US policy and general civilization. As the general American public is depressed economically to the benefit of the elite the whole envelope of the social character of the country seems to be permanently distorted towards a brutality to the rest of the world demanding that a good percentage of the population be subjugated to the economics of military domination with the general coarsening and brutalizing of the men involved in the process. This is obviously now a permanent feature of the society and do not expect any hypocritical propaganda to be capable of hiding the basic facts that viciousness is a prime element developed to enforce this general government agenda. Decency and honor is a long lost cause.
I wrote this in a general comment to a related news article -- way to go, Marines! Good job of imitating the Wehrmacht! Now history books can show photographs of American soldiers displaying the same grotesque battlefield barbarities as so many smiling German soldiers did on the eastern front during WWII. It's a proud day for the empire.
Even the most brief familiarity with US history and its treatment of the native inhabitants, the blacks imported as slaves, the various immigrants who fled to the country to avoid oppression in their countries indicates that Americans are well versed in callous brutality, no worse but no better than any other population. The problem is not Americans, it's humanity.
Our war with Afghanistan is a war of imperial conquest and empire. It has no other purpose. Peeing on the dead symbolizes the whole effort from the top politicians to the generals and on down the ranks.

It also points the finger at the rest of us. By not stopping this insane war, we are complicit. Does anyone seriously think you can run an imperialist war without vile atrocities? It comes with the territory.
All good comments. My reaction to the video was to not be surprised. My thought was that the Marines had presumably just KILLED the people on the ground. So, urinating on their kills seems to be only a minor faux pas in the etiquette of battle.

I'd suggest that those who object should object to the KILLING and not to violations of battle etiquette.

I'd also suggest that whoever photographed the scene and then stuck it up on the web is the one who really committed the outrage. Civilians are unlikely to understand matters of battle and battle etiquette.
Annie wrote - "we enjoy living in a world that is far safer than theirs, safer in large part due to the very same people that we have, for centuries, sent into combat."

This is a lie. We are not safer. We are less safe. We need to stop the hero warship of all things military. "Support our Troops." No, I will not as long as they continue to slaughter, maim, rape, pillage, plunder, and destroy. Were a bunch of Afghan farmers going to invade America and take away our freedoms. Were the Iraqi's, Pakistani's, Yemeni's, Somali's? We need to stop the propaganda about the military and honor of service, so young men are less likely to sign up to become musclemen for bankers, oil companies and other war profiteers. Maybe then, we will all be safer.
"we enjoy living in a world that is far safer than theirs, safer in large part due to the very same people that we have, for centuries, sent into combat."
actually you are very correct, and unlike others here, not a complete and utter hypocrite
@Steve Cross

The sooner it becomes common knowledge as to what actually goes on in combat the less the idiocy of honor and personal integrity will be attached to officially condoned murder. That troops piss on and mutilate the people who are there to murder them is at least an openly honest expression of their sense of triumph in surviving. I do not approve, but I understand and do not condemn. People on both sides are dishonored by the necessities put upon them by a frightful situation.
I haven't read the comments. When I was employed at the federal governments:
`
Veteran Readjustment Vet Center Program - (Thanks to former amputated multiple limb - Max Cleland former Senator & Carter's appointment as Veterans Chief Administrator.etc.,)

I had partly disassociated my own Self as a veteran. Disassociation is a 'weapon of defense and Self protection. War's pain/aftermath can be deadly.
I agree with you.
War kills many.
War kill later.
Bullets kill.

WW@ can?
Vietnam vet?
We ate leftovers.
`
If bullet no kill a WW2 sea-ration can of pork & beans. spam, or green eggs and ham may?
`
The veteran advocacy service was the most painful work I've ever done. It would have been easier to dig a ditch-hile all the way to China. That's an hyperbole.
`
I'd receive daily printouts.
Major Universities studied.
Academic research helped.

The experience of war's trauma cam kill. I didn't do drug and any whiskey. I'd rarely sip wine.
Hops in beer lulled to sleep.
I survived on`hyper-vigilance.
I was struggling to heal`Self.

I saw war vets with veins bulged.
They had that primordial stare.
It's called the *1,000 mile look.
You see everything at a glimpse.
I best shush. I'd never tell 'stuf'
And I'd hear sad ... murders etc.,
I was a "dump-ground" sorta.
I was a confessional of sorts.
I heard horrible war stories.
I'd protect readers from the:
Many war scenes. Oy vivid.
`
I still browse the literature.
`
Journal Of Traumatic Stress.
PLENUM - New York - London.
I have old issues. editor was:
Charles R. Figley, Ph.D
I liked his veteran effort.
He endorsed a story I did.
It's been on PBS etc., And?
I sure am not tooting a horn.
I must stop going on and on.
Congrats on the EP. Thanks.
You are doing a noble service.
Many die premature death.
Scars and heartache is great.
I still believe in truth. Beauty.
I have people in rocks.

CAUTION

tuition is sky high.

DO NOT ESCALATE
@keri h is bringing it to the point:



Jan arguments can not be proven wrong.
David ,I am sorry to hear this.

@From the Midwest:You don't really believe what you are saying.,do you?
How can you compare a teacher's job with combat in a war shaken,foreign!!! country???
I am very familiar with your working conditions,and I find your opinion on rather painful war-related events to be assumptive.
The text(keri h) has not been copied.
Every single person who has been there lives with the wreckage, as do their friends and families. Deep, heavy sadness.

I also find it kind of ironic that it's ok to *kill* someone, but not to pee on the corpse. I've never been able to wrap my head around the idea of "rules" of war.
We shouldn't be surprised. My grandfather's generation saw horrific things in the Second World War, not that they ever really talked about it. War is a terrible thing, and every time I hear some chicken-hawk politician talk about going to war with glib smugness I wish that he or she could be parachuted into the nearest war zone and shown what life's like at the pointy end.
My nephew is in Virginia at the moment, having started his training to be an officer in the US Army's engineers. My wife and I are hoping that he never gets in harms way. He's just a kid, and a great one at that, with an equally young wife and a dog.
The best cure for PSTD is to simply say " no I won't go!" Which sums up all I have to say about the military!
I'm a former Marine. PTSD is real, it's serious, and it is finally being dealt with in the military. But these soldiers pissing on corpses? Bullshit. No excuses, they knew exactly what they were doing. They are a disgrace. That was nothing to be proud of. There ARE rules in war. We have the Geneva Convention for a reason.
I didn't watch the video,nor do I intend to, for doing so would be nothing less than voyeurism. I do, however, mourn for allhumanity who suffer the consequences of their hypocritical governments who reduce them to such unfortunate acts and their life-long effects.
Thank you for this non-judgmental piece.

Rated♥
Well, I will come right out and say that I "condone" this. Who am I not to? Or you or anyone else that wasn't there. This is about the least atrocity of war that I have seen. Have you been in their situation? Almost of the people complaining about this are often the ones that want these god forsaken wars and don't check into that our leaders are the ones that are causing them. War is not shooting someone, they fall dead with a little bullet hole in them, and a spoonful of blood.
The article here is great. The actions of most warriors are not. God Bless are troops and piss on their leaders.
Sure, the troops are under stress, and sure, people have been desecrating battlefield corpses, mutilating them and taking "trophies," for as long as there has been war. Of course it's not surprising. But it is always wrong. No excuses. Particularly when we do it, assuming we still want to claim we are superior to others. Regarding the article, while I salute the author's attempt to arouse empathy for our soldiers in harm's way, she fails to mention any of the stress the Afghan people have been under since 1979, when their endless nightmare began. More than 30 years of war, just because we or the Russians think it's a good idea! The Afghans are probably the most traumatized people on earth, but you'd never know it from listening to our media. At least our troops can leave there after their tour is over. For the Afghans, though, just call it "traumatic stress syndrome," because there's nothing "post" about it. It will likely never end.
UncleChri said:

"Further, should symptoms of PTSD become evident following one's first tour in a combat zone, it is likely that one would be assigned to combat support or combat service support duty during subsequent tours."

I don't know where you get your information. I personally know soldiers who have done multiple tours, have extreme symptoms, and struggle mightily to not be sent back. In this time of stop loss, they're almost always sent back unless they actually kill themselves.

"Thus, I don't find much reason to believe that PTSD is the cause for using one's dead enemies as urinals. "

Again, I don't know where you get your information. I've had PTSD for a mighty long time, and I recognized it immediately.

This author should be commended for a very clear, very accurate, and very TRENCHANT post.
Thank you for this remarkable essay. r.
Before I begin I want to preface this comment by saying that I am not a war loving person, nor do I hold with desecrating the dead.

Yes the troops are sad and depressed and likely over medicated as well. That the video in question shows a group of soldiers desecrating the bodies of their enemies is also undeniable, however, this is only half of the story. These men have likely been exposed to similar treatment of their fallen comrade's bodies. Some have already commented that this is not uncommon on the battlefield. Warriors have long made a spectacle of the humiliation of their enemies, by taking scalps, ears, genitals and even heads to display as a symbol of their prowess as warriors. The troops in question likely felt that they were avenging the disrespect of others at the hands of these men or their compatriots. I don't mean to excuse the acts, I find them repellent but, I am seeing a lot of judgement from people who have no idea of the kind of mortal stresses involved in surviving combat and also a very disingenuous comparison to the genocide perpetrated by the Nazi's. We have a video that shows a few men taking out their rage and frustration at enemies killed in battle. What the Nazi's did was carry out systematic genocide of certain people. This was their nations policy and regardless of how you look at it they were not acting in the capacity of a field soldier, the Nazi's were no more than executioners. Those Marines are in no way comparable to anything that fascists had done in regard to genocide. It is offensive to me that this kind of statement could even be made by someone who claims to be knowledgeable and educated.

By all means let's find a way to stop the bloodshed but stop treating the people who are compelled to fight in your behalf as some kind of other worldly monsters.
No, not surprising: war brutalises people and this is what happens.

But there are rules. It may sound stupid to have rules in a kill-or-be-killed situation, but amidst the blood and carnage of war there have to be rules. Otherwise we're back in the Stone Age.

These rules have been articulated in the Geneva Conventions: you don't torture prisoners of war; you don't take out reprisals against civilians; you don't mutilate the corses of your victims. And so on. And you don't piss on their dead bodies either.

But these things will happen, and therefore they must be punished. Otherwise they'll happen even more next time.

Of course, if you don't start unnecessary, agressive wars then scenes like this will be less likely.
We are shocked when we see war, but really. Who do you think made the corpses in the first place? Sorry you spend all day trying to kill someone who is trying to kill you, you will piss on them if you win. That is real war. War is based on hate and killing. You hate the enemy, that is how it works.

Hillary and other leaders may deplore these acts, but they are the reason why regular human beings are in the position in the first place. Most people are happy to let live and let live, it is the leaders who start wars not the poor sap who has to fight them. They understand the concept of the hate of war because they do not have the luxury of being so high minded safe behind their desks.
The more constructive outrage would be to stop both wars and not put regular men and women in the position to have to kill others for a living. Our national defense has gone from the idea of protecting our land from invaders to protecting the global interest of the few. Truth is that is the reason why we have war in the first place.
The situation is worse when you get to know the bureaucuratic methods created by the care givers. Army,Air Force Navy, Marines, and the VA who refuses to make there records compatible, with the excuse we spent large sums to put records on line by are favorite MIC contracter. This action alone would simplefil the process treamondusly (How in the hell can you report the situation when the basic input varies per case) Just think when you are given an appointment to go to the VA for counceling, during the day, the decision is go for counceling or stay on the job you stay on the job, to keep the job, and the VA report you as a no show and you refused treatment. ( HOW ABOUT EVENING APPOINTMENTS ? ) Rember in the workforce counceling is a bad thing. You might go postal!! There are many simple soulitions that common sence could help solve.
Lots of debate and shared insights, and I thank those who understood this piece for what it was and shared their views. I believe some, however, have missed the point and projected their own thoughts about issues I did not raise. And so, I hope the theme of this piece isn’t lost among some of the commentary, a theme which is simply this: There is another tragic layer to war that is often not considered, especially by those who hold the power to both create and end it.

Perhaps the last justified war was WWII; that can be debated. But military men and women have no choice as to where our leaders will send them or for what reason or agenda. They offer to sacrifice their life for their country, for us, and now it seems we are increasingly asking them to also relinquish their souls.
To wave a shame forefinger at these guys put up as targets and relieving their fears and joys at remaining alive in the name of "rules of war" is, aside from being totally childish as to how humans react in a situation of total horror, abysmally unaware of the total smashing of the rules of basic human intellect and decency and both international and constitutional law of the leaders who sent them there. The wars in both Iraq and Afghanistan were promulgated out of unjustified raw revenge for acts of a few terrorists who shattered the false sense of security of the USA that has been committing acts of aggression throughout the world for decades with the idiot concept that there would be no blowback.

Humans have advanced very little if at all from the early stages of "civilization" and although delightful hypocrisy is rampant one must be terribly naive to indulge in it.
Sorry but the "war is hell" arguement can be used to jsutify any degradation or atrocity. Those who have taken the position that "This pissing on corpses is terribily wrong but..................." would be the most outraged if the Taliban was pissing on dead marines and posted it on Youtube.

r
Since the Taliban and the USA are both guilty of immense atrocities to the living men, women and children in many sectors this outrage against pissing on dead people who have not a care in the world anymore of whatever is done to them is a clear demonstration of human idiocy characteristic of the species in general and current culture. It does not bode well for solutions to the real and very pressing problems of the world.
In thinking over the rational and much more humane solution to this problem it has occurred to me that any use of sexual apparatus in war is regarded by people as far more terrible than using guns and explosives and raises fare more satisfaction than inflicting death. Therefore why no have armies spare each other's lives and remove the dangers of permanent personal injury entirely in an obvious move towards decency and rationality. Instead of killing each other soldiers should be trained to piss on each other and after a bit of soap and a hot shower each side can retire to their families in good condition while the diplomats decide on who won. This may sound a bit insane but who could say it is more insane than what actually happens?
@ Torrito, Sorry, what I said was not meant to excuse or minimize my own disgust. ALL soldiers on battlefields are apparently capable of this type of behavior. The real difference is that now more than ever they have a means to record those act that will bring them shame when viewed by the rest of the world. As for your comment that those who say "war is hell" but... I disagree, when I speak of atrocities and the people who commit them I include all participants in the war.

War is a holdover from a time when power was defined by the ability to slaughter one's enemies. War is an outdated concept that has worn out its welcome. Despite the proclaiming of lofty ideals and moral issues, war is just the tool that the powerful use to show their power. There is nothing "Godly" or "righteous" or "just" in war. War is perpetrated by fools on fools. The most criminal act in war is that we lie to children in order to convince them to die so someone else can be more powerful.
I didn't watch the video but I did see split seconds of stories televising this repulsive act of regression.

I'll end with commenting that the alleged incident in question does not define what our service men and women encounter during their multiple tours of duty.

I'll ask people to think twice about what military families face long after wars have officially ended. PTSD is just one of those wars raging in the minds, bodies and spirits of our wounded soldiers.

Nobody here or elsewhere is worth dying for.
Okay, yes, soldiers are suffering PTSD. Yes, it is a shame how they are treated by their employers. Yes, something should be done. But when they are pissing on a dead guy, sorry, but using this story to highlight PTSD is wrong-headed, insulting to the dead guy, and typical of American reaction. Let's paraphrase, "After watching a video of soldiers pissing on a dead body, I must say 'those poor soldiers!' What could have driven them to such atrocities?!'". I'm sure, when the family of that dead man sees this article they will agree that the concern should be for the soldiers and their mental state. Come on, people! They pissed on a corpse! That is sick behavior and there are plenty of folks out there with PTSD who would NOT piss on a corpse! Those soldiers are criminals. throw the book at them. Oh, and a little reminder for the "war is hell" crowd, yeah there actually is no war. It is called an occupation. Congress never declared war did they? So instead of being the poor affected soldiers just doing their part in a war they have no control over now turns into and invading and occupying force kills a local and pisses on the corpse. How amazingly poetic. There are lots of suicides, domestic violence, local crimes and various other fallout from PTSD to highlight the problem. This article is probably the worst way I've seen it done.
"Certainly our leaders expressed their outrage and condemnation—Leon Panetta, Hillary Clinton, et al. But they know better, better than any of us, even if they won’t admit so publicly."

Well, I am expressing my outrage and condemnation of Leon Panetta, Hillary Clinton, et al, for flying to quick conclusions regarding our military, as they usually do.

The picture of four marines urinating on the dead bodies of our enemy is not suitable for dinner time review, but unless you know what action had taken place, how can anyone analyze and make a judgement to "condemn" what is on the video.

Unless you have been in combat, and have had a bowl movement as a horde of enemy is coming at you with bayonets fixed, or been in a troop carrier and see the one in front of you with buddies you had breakfast with being blown up by an IED, you have no right to criticize, and more disgustingly, politicize this event.

Take your ideology to another blog, where you can attack neo-cons, George Bush, and the capitalist system to your hearts content.

This is the face of the enemy our men and women wake up to fight every day.....

http://annoy.com/sectionless/beheading.wmv

And senior people in this Administration call our marines "criminals"...They should look in the mirror...
I enjoyed reading your interesting article. I am indeed not surprised that this event occurred. It is some form of reaction to the pressures of war that the soldiers faced daily.
Let us not confuse "bad behavior" with "corrupt, evil, soul-leaching behavior".

Pissing on the corpse of the soldier who was trying to shoot you, hours ago, is not the same as pissing on the corpse of the civilian you just burned to death. The former is tacky, very bad behavior; the latter is craven, evil, immoral stuff that people rot in hell for doing.
Whatever is taught to the Marines or Navy Seals in classrooms, there is a separate message being taught as well by some of the troops.
Some who enter the military are sociopaths. They have no regard for anyone. Fortunately, most of these get washed out because they can't become part of a team. It is, truly, all about them. Some make it through, though.
For many individuals the only way that they can think about killing another person is to think of the enemy as subhuman. The next step is that they sterotype everyone in the cultural or racial group as subhuman. They give the people whose land they occupy derogatory names, distance themselves in any way from the enemy and/or the people of the enemy.
This was rampant in Viet Nam. I was a doctor there and our unit's top NCO said, "Doc I'm bored. I wish they'd bring in a whole truckload of f****d up gooks. (I wouldn't want anything to happen to any of our guys, but gooks are gooks.) This from a guy who was otherwise a decent person. This is how some otherwise normal people SURVIVE war. First, there is no hesitation when they look at the enemy. No moment of saying this is someone's son, or husband, or father. Secondly, it is how they survive mentally. It is a small step from thinking of them as less than human to urinating on their corpse.
The situation here is that this activity has become a group ritual, a tie that holds the group together. R
I think it was simply taking a figurative saying and making it literal.

I would also wager that those soldiers will eventually admit it wasn't the best thing to do, with or without regrets.
i am sadden that these two wars did not have to happen, if the Bush administration had heed out going president Clinton advice from then national security advisor, and Bush had listen to Clinton concerning Bin Laden and his gang of thugs. if he did not listen to Dick Chaney. but to Colin Powell. America would not have face the economic problems it could have balance its buget.( they received a surplus from the Clinton administration.) and saved billions from not going to war. and so many young men and women lives not destoryed.
yerfdog 2.
I am beguiled by the level of journalism these last few days on Salon.

I too got caught up with my thoughts and introspections . Where do you think this is all coming from? Is there a tradewind?
@Rodney Roe - You hit it on the head. If you hesitated, you were dead, just as dead as the guy you killed wanted you to be. Turning the Vietnamese into "gooks" (or slopes or dinks, depending on where you were and who you were with) was how we survived.
I say, the WARMACHINE has been p*ssing on EVERYONE.... foreign and domestic alike.... for decades.....
and you all just now noticed it?
I'm a Marine with multiple combat tours and injuries who has been diagnosed with severe PTSD.
This article is a lot of c**p. Those of you making excuses for these Marines are clueless.
The right wing chickenhawks who have never been in in the military let alone been in combat are especially contemptible for running their mouths as usual about what they would like to believe.
This nothing less than a lack of discipline of the type that gets Marines killed. It should have been handled at the small unit level and the fact that it wasn't tells me that this is not a well run unit. I'm sure its not the first time they did this but just the first time they were dumb enough to film it.
Now of course the brass and the politicians are CYA'ing so people at the lowest level possible will be reprimanded in order to cover up the incompetence of their leaders.
Be a dumbass all you want about blaming Obama and Hillary (really?) but the military will be the first to lower the boom on these guys. They already have.
Like all wars, typically Vietnam in our own era, this war will keep on killing. The stress to which we subject the young soldiers will create wounds they'll carry the rest of their lives. The suicides among Vietnam Vets eventually outgrew the number killed in the war itself. We have already seen this occurring among soldiers on duty in these worthless enterprises and among those who have returned with the horrible memories which haunt them to distraction, to despair, and to destruction. Thomas Jefferson: "I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just."
"It’s just all a bit more complicated than simple outrage. "
I couldn't agree more. great piece!
What made me realize something was really wrong here was that Marines -- even above all other services -- do NOT leave their dead behind -- for respect and to prevent desecration of the bodies. Drummed into us almost from day one in boot camp.
So the level of stress these young men had been through for their entire period(s) of deployment had to have been devastating.
The "let's you and them fight" misadventure created by Bush-Cheney-Wolfowitz-et al (and all the other Rec Room Patriots who were too goddamn wonderful to ever SERVE their country -- and holding high office and positions of prestige and privilege ISN'T serving -- it was taking) was nothing more than "push 'em till they break."
So they lost families and homes and arms and legs and eyes and minds. (And now they throw political feces at Obama like angry chimps and scream "He's an appeaser," as he tries to get our people home.)
I value this quote from a German poet, a man who got to see close up how totally off course and misguided one's own country can get:

"The first casualty of war is not truth, but perspective. Once that's gone, truth, like compassion, reason, and all the other virtues, wanders around like a wounded orphan."
Ente Grillenhaft -- "Treatise on Reason and Hysteria"

These men gave EVERYTHING for our country because they believed our leaders knew what in hell they were doing and that perhaps they weren't just doing it for their own enrichment and self-aggrandizement.
@Saintperle: "The first casualty of war is not truth, but perspective. Once that's gone, truth, like compassion, reason, and all the other virtues, wanders around like a wounded orphan."
Ente Grillenhaft -- "Treatise on Reason and Hysteria"

An excellent point to add to the debate; thank you for reading and sharing.
AK
@Ken, who says the best argument is for soldiers to say, "I won't go." These are not draftees, as in Vietnam. It's an "All Volunteer" force. Also, I side with those commenters who say it lowers us to make excuses for what the men did, while also agreeing with those who say it's OK to kill, but no to piss on the bodies. War degrades everyone in the country in whose name the wars began. And I'm not an armchair observer; I served 28 years in the military, including Vietnam. Where it was not unknown for U.S. soldiers to wear necklaces of the ears of dead "enemy."
Great article; thanks for writing it. War destroys both the killed and the killer, the winner and the loser. Why are we surprised that soldiers behave like this when we ask them to daily perform jobs that no human being can survive WITHOUT losing their humanity? How can we say on the one hand, kill these people, take their lives and on the other, respect their corpses. We're the ones who are insane. This has always amazed me about people like George Bush--how easily they can send human beings to war. These people who put themselves in harm's way for us deserve our respect but mostly, our care and compassion and attention, and our understanding that we are asking them to do the impossible.