Allan Goldstein

Allan Goldstein
Location
San Francisco, California, USA
Birthday
July 20
Bio
Allan Goldstein is a San Francisco-based writer, newspaper columnist, blogger, and author of the novel your cat would write if your cat could write a book: The Confessions of a Catnip Junkie. Available on Amazon in print and Kindle editions. He lives in the city with his amazingly tolerant wife, zero kids, and at least one cat. You can find his archived writings and links to his book on his website, allangoldstein.com.

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Editor’s Pick
MARCH 25, 2011 7:21AM

Libya, Leadership and Lives

Rate: 7 Flag

Gaddafi Apartment

            The world cried for armed intervention in Libya for a month.  The United Nations, the Arab League, the Libyan rebels themselves demanded we come in.  So we did.  Led by American firepower, British resolve, and—I can’t believe I’m writing this—the purifying moral outrage of the French, we stepped in and stopped a massacre.

            Seventy two hours later the world that demanded this war began to turn against it.  I believe that breaks the record.

            Had we not struck when we did, with Gaddafi’s tanks poised at the gates of Benghazi, any arguments on the merits of this war would be strictly academic.  The rebellion would be crushed and the fate of Libya’s citizens would be in the hands of an enraged, triumphant, Muammar Gaddafi.  And man, would we have heard it from the world then!

            I don’t think president Obama expects gratitude.  He’s wise enough to know that public opinion pockets the gains, stuffs them under the mattress, and wakes up asking what have you done for me lately.  Though you’d think their sleep might be disturbed by 20,000 lumps of Libyans under the Serta.

            What our president is doing, as the winds of public opinion shift from tail to head, is exerting leadership.  And whether he is leading us in the right or wrong direction is a fair question for debate, and one we can have now that the rebels face a civil war instead of the Colonel’s justice.

            Let’s get one thing out of the way before we start.  The world called for, but didn’t want, a no-fly zone.  They wanted a no-die zone.  But war is not magic.  Wars involve death and destruction, and they’re almost never won by airpower alone.  A no-fly zone is just a polite way of saying, “You go take care of it, so if somebody gets hurt, they can’t blame us.”

            With that out of the way, let’s examine some of the arguments for and against the war in Libya.

            The President exceeded his constitutional authority when he sent our armed forces into battle without congressional approval or a declaration of war.  This is true enough, though he has plenty of good, and bad, company.  Reagan, Bush, Clinton and Bush did the same thing.

            Still, he could have waited on Congress and used his executive authority to ship fifty-thousand wreaths to Benghazi instead, perfectly legally.

            Another argument is that we took too long to get in.  We should have gotten involved before Gaddafi’s forces regrouped, when it would have been easier to help the Libyans overthrow him.

            Well, I should have painted the house last year.  Time is always on the side of the aggressors, until it isn’t.  We should have gone in earlier.  The counter argument is that we shouldn’t have gone in at all.  Add them up and divide by two and I’d say we got it about right.

            Some isolationists on the right and pacifists on the left argue that American force should never be used under any conditions other than a direct, Pearl Harbor, attack.

            This position has the benefit of consistency, but I wonder:  How many innocents need to die while we’re having anti-imperialism flashbacks?

            Another objection is that we don’t have any idea who will wind up in power in Libya once Gaddafi’s gone, and whoever it is, they won’t be grateful.  When you help an overseas nation gain its freedom, they take the freedom, but they never return the favor.

            Don’t be so cynical.  Take the long view.  Without France’s help we’d all be speaking English now—the King’s English.  A little more than a decade after a French fleet, the airpower of the 18th century, turned the tide at Yorktown, we repaid them by almost going to war against France.  But we squared our debt a hundred sixty years later, on the beaches of Normandy.

            Realists complain that Obama should have known he’d get sandbagged by the Arab League, that they’d turn against him the moment the bombs started falling.

            They have a point there.  But what can you expect.  The Arab League has had a lot of turnover in the dugout lately; a lot of managers have been fired this spring by the Arab Street.  No wonder the rest are skittish.

            You hear this one a lot:  If we go into Libya, what about Bahrain, Yemen, Syria, Saudi Arabia?  We can’t take a stand in Libya and do nothing in those other places, it’s pure hypocrisy!

            This is the most tedious, immoral argument of all.  It’s like saying we shouldn’t splint a broken leg because we haven’t cured cancer.  We can’t cure the world’s ills, but we can help some people, some time.  This is one of those times.

            It’s a bogus argument anyway, barely worth refuting.  But I can do the job in eight words:

            Doing everything is impossible; doing nothing is unacceptable.

            You hear this one from all quarters:  Our goal in this war is not clear.  Are we there to enforce a humanitarian no-fly zone or to take out Gaddafi?

            This is the only persuasive argument I’ve heard so far against our intervention.  Maybe we can’t say it out loud, maybe Obama and the other nations involved know what they have to do, but it can’t be said in public.

            That’s okay.  I understand the need for diplomacy and, for a delightful change, so does our president.  I, however, am not a diplomat.  And between you and me and the lamppost, this war won’t be over until Colonel Gaddafi is hanging from it.

            Because if we learned anything from Iraq it is this:  Fighting a war of choice is a dreadful business.  The only thing worse is fighting it twice.

 

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I agree, and I support Obama. I think he did the right thing given all the factions and constraints and consequences to consider.
Sharply argued.

As for this:

"Without France’s help we’d all be speaking English now—the King’s English. "

I did a little research on that, too, as the chorus of "never intervene" voices rang out in certain circles. As you note, it's a good thing for us that the French didn't take that line 1776-82.
I thought I had commented after I rated earlier, saying simply, thank you.
Thanks to all three of you commenters! I've been posting on open salon for a while now, and my stuff usually gets buried. Whoever in their editorial board found, and headlined my piece gets my thanks and gratitude.

I love this site. It would be wonderful to see my work here get the same attention it gets on the other blogs where I post it, like opednews and smirking chimp.

Once again, thanks for your incisive, generous comments, all!
People were screaming impeach Bush. I think Joe what's his name, the VP, was leading that charge. However, you can't point to past wrongs to justify a new one.

When it started it was we will turn it over to the French in a couple days and there will never be boots on the ground. Then it went to a few weeks. Now it's to NATO, and we have 2200 Marines enroute. That's not leadership. That's winging it.

He also waited until the English, French, UN, Arab League and others said it was okay. Now it's let the French lead. That's not leadership.
We've paid France back ten times over. We are an exceptional country. We liberate innocent people. We do not go into occupy. Even after we defeat them.....we rebuild them.

President Obama did not make a decision to go into Libya. The women in his cabinet did, He didn't want to go in. You heard Farrakan " who do you think you are....going after our brothers in Africa."

If you are reading this post....thank a teacher....If you are reading this post in English....thank an American Soldier.
We've paid France back ten times over. We are an exceptional country. We liberate innocent people. We do not go into occupy. Even after we defeat them.....we rebuild them.

President Obama did not make a decision to go into Libya. The women in his cabinet did, He didn't want to go in. You heard Farrakan " who do you think you are....going after our brothers in Africa."

If you are reading this post....thank a teacher....If you are reading this post in English....thank an American Soldier.
We've paid France back ten times over. We are an exceptional country. We liberate innocent people. We do not go into occupy. Even after we defeat them.....we rebuild them.

President Obama did not make a decision to go into Libya. The women in his cabinet did, He didn't want to go in. You heard Farrakan " who do you think you are....going after our brothers in Africa."

If you are reading this post....thank a teacher....If you are reading this post in English....thank an American Soldier.
Have you bugged my house? These words - well, not exactly, but you know what I mean - are what I have been shouting at my nonresponsive walls for a week now.

It would be funny, were it not so sad, that as the Libyan rebels finally began to get a few whiffs of the sweet, illusive scent of hope, all the same critics who'd been demanding that Obama do something suddenly sat up and said,'OK, time to pour on some negative rhetoric now, because he's starting to look good, even to us.'

Thank you for this excellent post.
I see your arguments are put together as confusing as the issue truly is. In the case I would say that Obama was damned it did and damned if he didn’t. You can’t go unilaterally into any country and even more so in the Mid East without some support from the International community and even more so in this case from the Mid Eastern community.

Many hoped we could have been involved earlier that is true. Some think that Obama was wishy wash on this issue. But, the US and other countries have been burned many times in the Mid East and you do have to handle it with kid gloves.

Others of course are opposed to any armed intervention and as you say from both sides. In each case sitting back in doing nothing would have led to the whole scale slaughter of innocent people. I don’t find that as an acceptable option.

If recent history should have shown us anything it is that there is no such thing as a black and white situation. The world is very complicated and full of land mines when you move out of your womb. You just hope you can steer your way around them and leave the world, or at least a part of it, in a better place than where you started.
You lost me at "purifying moral outrage of the French."
This isn't about helping civilians. It's about oil. Plain and simple. If it were about helping civilians we would be bombing the Ivory Coast, The Congo, Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, Yemen and so on. Gaddafi controls Libya which has oil but he doesn't play by our rules. We saw an opportunity to back ARMED rebels as a way of overthrowing Gaddafi and getting a foothold on some of the largest oil reserves in the world. Libya's oil fields are state owned and our poor western corporations don't get to make any profit from their oil; boo hoo.

Oh but Gaddafi kills his own people. Well 385 pro democracy protestors died at the hands of the Pro American dictatorship in Egypt and we didn't do a thing to support them. Certainly not armed intervention on their behalf. (I wouldn't have supported it if we did because it would have taken the steam out of the non violent pro democracy movement just like it has in Libya).

The arguments the liberals are now making in support of war were used by Bush to defend Iraq. Saddam gassed his own people. Yeah, while he was "our guy." Why was Libya on the UN Human Rights Council until just recently. Why have we been silent to his human rights abuses for the last 10 years. Because he was willing to play ball and help with our "War of Terror" I mean "War on Terror."
Might be a good time to start reading Chalmers Johnson's Blowback series.
Well....after reading alaska Progressive's comment....I was shocked to realize that I agree with him. I'm very progressive on the social issues but when it comes to foreign defense I'm usually very conservative.

I believe the moral of this story is that President Obama will be very vulnerable during the 2012 election, because ppl of all persuasions (left/right) agree that this country is going in the wrong direction.

Once the U.S. realized how wealthy Gadaffi was, when he was sued after the Lockerbie Tragedy; we should have never settled for the money. He should have been tried the International World Court for his crime against humanity. We should have never normalized realationships with him over money. It's always about the bottom line.
anyone who ascribes any virtue at all to a politician simply does does not understand reality. but whatever king obama had in mind, he saved a lot of lives by joining the intervention. btw, not his idea, cameron and sarkozy were way out in front.

other lives were lost, as a result. let's hope fewer. i have devised the term 'collateral benefit' to characterize the activities of western governments in pursuit of their national interests in other people's lands. if some good comes of it, it's purely by chance.
prez obama's doctrine in Year 2011 to mubrark "it is time for him to go"....to colonel gaddafi "it time for him to go"....which arab leader is next?...in 2012 the republicans will say "it is time for him to go" about prez obama....to join the peanut farmer and bubb blow-job willie clinton as the only commie-democrap's prezs in last 46 years.......
"The world cried for armed intervention" - far as I can tell from the news reports that we see in our part of the world, it is not the WORLD that cried. The US and Britain that gets oil from Libya are not the World. There are 45 COUNTRIES in Asian continent alone. And others across the world. Hm.

"The President exceeded his constitutional authority when he sent our armed forces " and probably MORAL as well? Bombing civilians to oust a leader that they had in fact chosen cannot be all legal or moral. Gaddafi who came from a poor family himself did not stage a coup against the people. He staged a coup against Private ownership of the State of Libya and was instrumental in establishing a Republic in Libya.

doing nothing is unacceptable "those too serve that just stand and wait" isnt that a something that originated from your world in the West? Even though that was written in a different context, am sure if Milton was alive today, or Shakespeare, they would have condemned this US decision.

until Colonel Gaddafi is hanging from it. you sound like a high school bully. Maybe we should hang you first? How about that? Only it would solve the world's problems and we would have the additional burden of having to justify your hanging and then have to dig the ground and bury your body whioch is a lot of trouble. Plus it doesnt solve problems create new ones. So no killing you or Gaddafi isnt - cannot be the solution

I think if this was Jesus's times and you were one close to that king, you would have happily murdered Jesus too. And no am not a radical and I don't like Gaddafi myself. But yes, I understand human rights, and I don't think anyone should die that has nothing to do with politics or power. Collateral damage is unacceptable. Five countries attacking ONE man is terrifying. Violence is never an answer to end violence.

Thats why the Diplomats get fat packets of salary Diplomatic immunity ec lots and lots of privileges bec they are trained to and have the capacity to DEFUSE tension, AVERT wars! In every nation in the world, the BEST brains are in the Diplomatic Corps!!! You have them too - USE THEM! Please.
This became the Editor's pick bec our Editors wanted to be fair or bec they wanted to appear pro Clinton and seem with the govt or are they scared of the US govt? Do you live in fear then, even in the West? So then what gives you the right to take Gaddafi to task? OS is OPEN without taking a stand? Wow that's a good world we live in. I feel so safe! The Third Estate is afraid to take a stand on something that is so clear and straight forward? Doesn't anyone on OS read pr analyze or study or even question?
am sorry "Only it would solve the " shd be "Only it would NOT solve the world's problems " Sorry about the typo there. But maybe my subconscious did think for a minute "why not follow the writer's method? Just eliminate the cruel/ the ones that THINK are evil" In this case in my head it was YOU. That wants someone he knows next to nothing about to "hang".
France did not have to deal with US intervention. So it is irrelevant here in context. Please read more. Study and try and see the big picture, the whole. You are into the tunnel vision mode. think about how this US decision affects the whole world. US is after all a superpower. What you and I little mortals can do without a thought - someone as big as the United States of America CANNOT!!! To be world leader means to be dextrous, resourceful, restrained and committed to finding humane solutions to human problems, Sir. Not to be drawn into violent wars. If you do that what diff would there be between you and Gaddafi????
You cannot blame him for doing the same thing as you are doing - namely "doing what WE think is right"
As Obama prepares to address the nation, belatedly, regarding his incomprehensible policy on Libya, it turns out that Syria is the crisis du jour.

Do we actually pay this guy?
If I were POTUS, I'd deploy some Special Forces to assist the people with intelligence on positions of Quadaffi's forces, as well as strategy. I believe that what we're doing there is a noble thing. And one of the things that people nervous about our involvement in Libya fail to point out is that over 99% of any military operation is desert warfare. Remember Iraq I? It was a piece of cake, and the nature of desert warfare made it happen.

With the rebels now appearing on the offensive, it hopefully looks like the risks we took in going after Quadaffi are finally paying off.
I have to agree with the curmudgeonly Mr. Loomis on this, politicians don't make decisions from debates about morality like you or I may. Also, 50,000 lives may have been saved by not waiting for congress, but many more may still die, that's unknowable, and the rule of law is inherently worth standing up for.
Alaska Progressive:

"If it were about helping civilians we would be bombing the Ivory Coast, The Congo, Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, Yemen and so on. Qaddafi controls Libya which has oil but he doesn't play by our rules. We saw an opportunity to back ARMED rebels as a way of overthrowing Qaddafi and getting a foothold on some of the largest oil reserves in the world. Libya's oil fields are state owned and our poor western corporations don't get to make any profit from their oil..."

---

I agree with that.

And I think that it was Americans who supported the rebels already from the beginning to start the war in Libya. Americans need the oil from Libya. Next it will be the turn of Iran?
"With the rebels now appearing on the offensive, it hopefully looks like the risks we took in going after Quadaffi are finally paying off."

It must be heartwarming to the Bush team to receive retroactive analogical support from such unlikely quarters.

These displays on the left of such rank inconsistency and hypocrisy cause me to wonder how these leftists can live with their contradictory conclusions without embarrassment.
I don't agree with the statement that Obama exceeded his constitutional authority. The Wars Power Resolution allows him to use the military to "prevent and remove threats to the peace" if he believes that the nation's peace could be compromised due to the Libya conflict. Obama did send troops and then on March 22, he informed Congress on his decision to send troops. With this information, Congress should have started debating whether they should declare war or approve of Obama's decision and whether they will fund his efforts or not. The War Powers Resolution does not clearly state what an act of war is or an action to protect the peace. That is what Congress has to decide.