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aim

aim
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♪♫•**•.¸♥¸.•*¨*•♪♪♫•**•.¸¸♥ I like cheese, wine, art openings, art shoes, art installations, poetry, single malt scotch, the sublime if I can define it, the ridiculous whenever i can find it, food in general, ethnographic history ie OPS ie Other People's Stories.

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AUGUST 8, 2012 5:56AM

Unforgiven

Rate: 42 Flag

So here’s the run down for everyone who missed it. Sally Swift wrote about being almost in the way of a shooter in Philadelphia. Sally is Jewish and said she often goes to the theater with her family on Non-Jewish holidays (this is kind of common knowledge, to me, - that Jews eat Chinese and go to the movies on, say, Christmas- but perhaps amazeballs to others. Who knows.)

She was NOT at the theater where the shooter was in Philadelphia. YaY! Sally reflects on a near miss and many other things.

Rwnutter makes a comment basically saying that because she was in a movie theater and is Jewish she should expect extermination because the Jews run Hollywood and porn and all sex trafficking. You can go over to his blog and see all of his vile , paranoid and ugly “evidence”. I won’t link it – we’re all aware of how the internet works and now you have two names to click on. I’d read Sally’s piece first, personally, and then read the comment and then click on rw and read his really horrible diatribe. Or don’t – trust me on this – it’s vile. Ok, go ahead – he’ll get more hits but maybe you feel like arguing with crazy people.

Just after rwnuts makes his blanket anti-Semitic comment Fusun A comes in to make a very ambiguous comment that, to many, reads as if she supports the nutter. If she was say me, or perhaps you (I don’t know you, you might be great) maybe this blatant insensitivity would be overlooked. But Fusus has a history of just being really rude for no particular reason, and this is a situation where a Jewish person is being told to look in the mirror because the Jews are responsible for all evil in the world ever.

Bad form on the part of Fusun – but here we are, with an essay about almost being in a theater with a shooter, in response to an open call, and anti Semitic insults have already been hurled, and it looks like Fusun is agreeing.

What would you do? I think I would try to talk to the person who is offended, and her friends who are equally offended, and explain what I meant to say. In fact, I have completely put my foot directly into my mouth in comments and swallowed, only to spit up many apologies. What would you do?

I’m sure I am not alone in the effort of apologizing online – in fact, I bet we all have taken down a post or made an apology in comments when we know we have let our idea of being right blur the fact that we aren’t. I know that feeling well – hubris – or as I prefer, extreme fluffiness. Huffy puffy fluffiness, and don’t talk me down.

But I DO retreat, come down, regroup – and…here’s the thing – I would not have the fluffiness or the hubris to write a blog about forgiveness in the midst of something I knew I was part of. Because no. It would never occur to me, in the midst of something that is shaking the community to the core  - vile anti semitic insults followed by a blog portraying Jews as pornographers and part of sexual slavery – I just wouldn’t climb up on my platform and give blanket forgiveness due to my big (or small) <3.

And that’s the problem. It’s not cliques, it’s not ganging up, it’s not popularity, it’s not love or hate. It’s Sally Swift’s blog about her experience, and a comment that many agree is one of the most vile and upsetting comments ever, ever, ever in the fucking history of OS. Followed by Fusun, who was probably misinterpreted to some extent, basically defending a part of the comment. But what was the purpose of that? To seem enlightened? I would give her that grace if she wasn’t wandering around ad hoc attacking people for no reason.

And NO MATTER WHAT! Defend away, but at least address the blatant and ugly anti Semitism as well.

Fusun chose to write a blog about forgiveness, cleverly titled “Forgiveness”. I accept that English is her second language and, unlike her, will not go after all of the spelling and grammar hiccups or mistakes.

I am still offended that she would add to a very hurt and suffering community by making herself some strange martyr. I have no need or desire for her forgiveness. A great writer would have addressed the pain at hand – anti-semitism, in full bloom, and asked her readers to rise up against the horror in our midst.

Instead she forgives us. Well, lady, you can take that and plant it anywhere you want. You need to ask for our forgiveness.

The sad part is that this is not what I wanted to write today – but it has to be said.

Meanwhile, the person spreading his vile beliefs is likely rubbing his hands in glee. Utter fail.

Next time let’s not forgive the person who wanted exactly this to happen..

 

 

 

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because i am disgusted

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Would you mind if a rooster said he loved you?
Thanks Matt. I just saw that this has been discussed elsewhere...but I'm leaving it up because I think I make one important point.
Thanks Alison, although I do believe you have given the fusun persona way too much credit. She absolutely knew she was throwing the bomb when she defended the nutball. Negative attention is better than none to some.

Her "Forgiveness" post is also a crock of shit - hasn't anyone noticed that there is not a word about "forgiveness" in the content? The entire post is "poor me, look what they did to me". She is the worst type of hypocrite; the one who loudly proclaims their victimhood and goodness, while her actions scream rude! Mean! Ignorant! Arrogant! She is false, false, false, at best, and could in fact be much worse (evil).

It is 4 days later and I am still sickened by her response on Sally's post, and her continuous attempts to justify the unjustifiable.
Another big kiss from me.

Is Mr. Job's post still up? I have an idea. Let's go flag it. Perhaps our editor, Mr. Sugarman, will agree that it, and maybe Mr. Job needs to go.
Ack. I can't find it....can someone link? I think I might be searching for a mispelled avatar....
I wrote a post last year called "The Power of the Apology," (or something like that...) It doesn't matter, it's just to say, that I know the power of an apology. I know how healing a true apology from the heart can be. When people are able to give them sincerely, they have climbed over huge hurdles within themselves. There lies true generosity. ~r
In case my comment is misconstrued, the post is about my mother and a white supremacist. Spoiler alert: The white supremacist apologized. :)
Right on, lady.

In the comments to Sally's post, I could have believed Fusun had tried something audacious, if incredibly misguided (in choosing to ignore the nasty part of Job's comment and focussing on the almost-sane concluding sentence) and when it backfired she got into a spiral of defensiveness. Understandable, almost. But the "Forgiveness" post was defensiveness beyond any benefit of faint doubt. Annoyingly, lots of clueless people who either didn't know about or didn't care to look into what inspired that post (F. claimed that it was totally spontaneous, had nothing to do with anything that had happened the previous day), offered support and sympathy and admiration, which is totally misplaced...

The whole F. theory that Sally herself opened the door to a 'legitimate' anti-semitic rant by mentioning that she doesn't celebrate Christmas (and therefore must be *Jewish*) is particularly offensive.

And frightening...
I agree kellylark - but to make my point I can't even go there. And the whole point is that we, as a community, failed to attack the person responsible and instead imploded. Ms. FA is heinous to me, loved by many I respect - I hope they hold her accountable for her active participation in one of the worst times on OS.
What disturbs me about this is that good people are not more enraged about the vile antisemitism. That is the sort of thing that allows evil to flourish. People out there, do not be afraid to stand up against bigotry. Any of us could be the next victims of it, for whatever reason. And be assured, if there is a racist or bigoted slur against you, I will stand up for you. Please stand up for me, as well, as aim is doing, bravely, here. I respect you immensely for this, Alison. Thank you.
This all started because I farted in a theater?

And, oh, if I convert to Judiasm does that mean I get to run Hollywood?? If so, I'm in!! No more comic book movies EVER!
@Lea, your comment reminds me of one of my favorite quotes:
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke
A, I found it and sent a note to Mr. Sugarman. It's an unequivocally racist post. I'd not visited it til now, and couldn't scroll much further than a few inches. One would think that OS would not want to endorse or embrace something so abusive, but it probably gets hits, so you never know. Even if the editor does nothing, flagging it feels like a civic duty done. Thanks for the poke to go do that.
lot's to say but Cheshyre - wtf. I guess you want to be a clown. I'm miffed and sad that you interrupted, for me, some pretty important thoughts.
joan, i hope you do a repost! it might be what we need.

Myriad - exactly. Even in this rant I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt - up until the failure to speak out against hate speech. I'm sure nutter will be here soon - or not. he's getting way too much attention and not enough sanctioning, and that should come from us. Although, of course, I was too disgusted and tired to scroll all the way down and debate him.
greenheron - it's all free speech, so I doubt anything will "stick". I know other people flagged the post, as did I. The sad thing is that I went farther into his archives and found a person I might be able to talk to - but not this personality.
Lea - Thanks so much. What a sad weekend for OS - to see ourselves implode rather than argue against the very thing that is causing us to do so. We all bear responsibility for that... (not you - you were in Paris!) i just had to write this today, and I really hope some people will read it and see that there is a time to admit mistakes and to focus on the rot that is eating away at our fragile safety.
I've been trying not to get any more involved in this than I have been. I deliberately opened a post on my own account so that anyone who wanted to criticize me for what I said could do so directly and openly. I've seen too many people running around to too many posts saying too many things. But I think there needs to be just a little more clarity here.

For me, I found the original comment Fusun posted on Sally's post to be offensive in its apparent support at its face value, and I said so. But the crux of the whole thing, for me, was her response to that racist and hateful response post which apparently none of the good samaritans on this site bothered to check out (so much for critical thinking):

"I clicked on your name to find out who you are, since I was ostracized for not condemning your comment, but rather replying to Sally's post foremost and trying to be conciliatory regarding your highly detested comment, earlier today.

Thank you for this post, if only to prove your point - not that it makes a difference for me, but it does disprove Bill S's denial that there's not a single shred of proof.

As for me, contrary to the opinions of a few clique members here, I'm not a racist, bigot, or hater of any religious or social groups.

Rated♥"


For any who doubts that is her comment, as long as that post is still standing you can go see for yourself - that's a direct copy and paste:
http://open.salon.com/blog/rwnutjob/2012/08/03/a_reply_about_jews#comment_3033988

So, either the loving, educated, critical thinker never bothered to read the post in question, examine the sources and find them questionable - or she agreed wholeheartedly with the contents. I suppose a third possibility is that she was so incensed by my response that she was willing to lend support to a horrific post simply because she thought it showed me to be wrong.

Either way, whether it was spiteful or not, that comment and rate is unforgivable in my eyes. Others may take it as they wish, but I stand by every word I said about her. I'm not going to comment on this subject any more, now that all of the necessary evidence is there for anyone who wants to examine it. Sadly, my experiences here over the years leads me to the conclusion that very few will bother and prefer to remain snug in their cocoons of false admiration and ignorance. Like Lea, you should know that should anyone drop a racist or bigoted slur against anyone else on this site, even if it's someone I don't necessary like, if I see it I'll condemn it. There is no excuse not to.

Thanks for this, aim. Standing down now.
@ lea just to let you ( and others) know that kosh and I have long since made it as clear as we can here that we know what R-Nut is.

What's more troubling to me, and I think to Kosh as well, is the lack of Open response when the Jew-hating is less overt, is couched in 'politics' and 'cultural' 'discussion'.
Wow. How Is Alison Feeling Today?
Smile . . .
If anything happens Today I Clucks.
`
I may Invite a Banker Dozen Whores.
I Request They Hoot, Holler, Smirks,
and Tell Me I Entered Total `Giggles.

Madness Come From No Self `Exams.
If I Greet Others Who Betray` O! Oho!
The Betrayal in A Dark Mind is` Hurled.

It's important that awake people stay` awake.
If Not, Dark Habit/Hubris Patterns ` Prevail.
None Who Is Sane wishes Darkness` abound.
Excellent Bill! Thanks for that very pertinent information, and sorry you are drawn into this debacle. But look! Lovely people here!

Jonathan: Thanks for stopping by - I guess?
aim please don't misunderstand me...i an grateful for your take on these events --Jon
I think I'm slow responding to all that's happened here because I don't believe it's actually happening. I think we all expect the odd, ad hominem attack post from time to time - they are hideous, and this one is particularly loathesome, but it's happened before and we know it's some pathetic loser trying to make something happen in his life.

That other thing, though, the smug spectre of "Poor Meditating and Maligned Me" in the middle of everything is "beyond." The Buddha teaches us not to judge, as greenheron said, to look into our own bowls. Using themes of compassion and forgiveness for a passive-aggressive attack is just, at the end of the day, kind of silly.

P.S. Thank you for writing this, aim.
A, this is a beautiful post. I have not found the words to write what I wanted to. So I'll just say this: . The online free dictionary defines salon as “A periodic gathering of people of social or intellectual distinction.”
We have not demonstrated any kind of distinction when we are racist or anti-Semitic, when we judge another by the color of their skin instead of the content of their character as Martin Luther King Jr. said
Okay, I kinda, sorta agree with you.

Only "kinda" because all though you mentioned on it you "kinda" glossed over the fact the details. For example, she not only was rude to Joan H. once, but has run a virtual vendetta against her for more than a year and has utilized proxy spokes persons, back channels messages, snark and out and out threats towards her both here and elsewhere. Thereby proving she is a sociopathic troll AT BEST.

I also have to go with only "kinda" too because she has a track record of defending the indefensible. For example, not only was she rude, dismissive and argumentative towards Finger Lake Wanderer on her post that addressed the Armenian Holicaust she adamantly disavowed that one of the most horrendous and best documented cases of genocide even occurred.

I wont even address the "sorta" part because I'm laughing so hard. I'm laughing at some of the people who SURE speak up against any Jewish defamation (which equally surely occurred here and is dispicable), but then dare to say they stand up to any case of discrimination. What bullshit! I have never seen some of them and rarely all of them EVER stand up to non-Jewish defamation (i.e. you are totally free, he'll ENCOURAGED often to outright lie about and cheer on the extermination of the Palestinians), stand up against ongoing misogynism and rampant homophobia. When those things occur the silence is deafening.

So like I said, I kinda, sorta agree.
I'm still following this thread from far away because it is so important. Safe Bet's_ Amy, you and I have different styles, so we haven't communicated much, and you may be alluding to me directly or indirectly in the comment above. But I daresay we have more in common than you think. You don't know me or what charities I have given to or much about me, as we don't communicate directly. If you care to, it might be best off this site and we could see how much we probably agree on most things.

Our styles are different but I think our hearts are usually in the same place. FYI, I will tell you that I worked in the civil rights movement in Atlanta in the mid-60s, moving to a black neighborhood and meeting regularly with civil rights leaders in integrating an area. I was assigned the first black students ever at Marietta High School Georgia and tutored them on my own time to try and get them up to speed.

When my husband was in grad school I was active in promoting the first gay discussions and talks in the early 70s, when that sort of thing was not done before at the university where my husband was getting his doctorate. I have supported gay rights in many ways throughout my life, before it was a popular thing to do, and continue to do so.

I stand against any bigotry, but my focus has been antisemitism, which I have fought in many ways throughout my life, sometimes in depth. I can spot it a mile away. If I am not as active in Palestinian rights, please understand. I would love for all the area to get along and all the people in the Middle East to compromise. But being Jewish, losing relatives in the Holocaust, being a victim of anti-semitism all along my life in bits and pieces, that has been my focus.

And please don't curse me out. It just doesn't work as well for me as it may for others. I think we're maybe on different pages of the same book, but it's the right book to be reading. Those of us who have worked in any form of civil rights understand that it could be any of us next. We need to keep open minds and have an open heart to all people. I try to do the best I can, even if it falls short.
Commenting one thumbed on iPhone while hurtling northward to the Jew controlled regions of 'up north' Michigan at 80 mph so reading this and commenting is no mean feat I tell you Alison!
Just want to say that you are real mensch, or whatever you call a female mensch. Anyone capable of real critical thinking and even simple observation knows that you are spot on here
Meow, take care.
I would appreciate someone bringing me up to speed on what has brought this about. Not here...if anyone would like, write ma at JWolf41387@aol.com.

I have not seen or, perhaps, registerd the ill-mannered or prejudicial comments that F-A is said to have made. Rank bigotry does not usually pass me by, nor does nastiness.

I feel I may have, with silence and yet without intent, caused some consternation w that silence and if I have, I regret it.
Ok re-read this. ^ (Maybe I am not reading as well as I used to, I don't know.)

I am sure now that I did not read the comment at Sally's piece by FA that has caused the concern(s) here.
I remember a time, when I commented on a post of yours, and you went all-up-in-my-face about it, because you thought I was evil or something. I went all-what?-hey!-ain't-what-I-meant right back at ya. And you stepped right up that minute and said, "oh, hey, I was off base, don't mind me, take it back, etc." and that was cool. And now we can be friends, eh?

I am glad I missed the dust-up. But no, let's never tolerate racism or bigotry or any of that shit, and let's not apologize for our intransigence, either.
just dropping in, alison, to say i'm following the discussion and appreciate your thoughts on the matter. but i've said all i had to say on sally's post, on fusun's and on another "i didn't mean it even though that's exactly what i said" post that's been taken down except this: some things are debatable, some people are worth engaging in a discussion with, some people are attention seekers, some are mean, some are crazy, some statements are as clear as crystal; i think i've lived long enough and have surely been on OS long enough to be able to tell the difference, and i choose to engage - or not - accordingly. peace, your pal candace.
Let me second what Myriad said: "Right on, lady."
I made my unadorned comments on Sally's post in response to nutjob, in response to Fusun's comment on Sally's post, on Fusun's Forgiveness post, and on nutjob's vile, disgusting, nauseous post. Everything you've said on this post is as true as I know it to be.

The measure of a truly mature adult is his or her ability to recognize when they are wrong and have the humility to admit it and make amends. At some point, and I think we have reached that point, any attempt at apology will fall on deaf ears.

I have zero tolerance for all forms of bigotry. I was taken to task (although the person who appeared to do so insists she wasn't referring to me) for saying to Fusun "I call 'em as I see 'em." I'll do it again today, if I have to. I'll do it every day God sends until we learn how to cut it out. Bigotry is something none of us should tolerate under any circumstances or for whatever benevolent reason we cook up for ourselves.

Lezlie
@ Lea Lane: I was not purposely, directly or indirectly alluding towards you or really anyone specific. If you read that then I apologize for not expressing what I meant better.

Let me try again: I am frustrated by the justified and legitimate, IMO, furor that has arisen over Nutter's anti-Semetic comments and FA's tacit support of them.

The frustration arises from reading literally DOZENS of people decrying this defamation. Where are all of these people when there are equally egregious defamations of women, members of the LGBT community and or the Palestinians?

Seems to be VERY one sided, ya know?

BTW, I have read and seen where you have stood up against Jewish defamation before. I respect that greatly. I just get seriously frustrated when it's only me and one or two other people who are the ones standing up against defamation of the others.

I certainly can understand protecting what's closest to you (gawd knows I get accused of calling bullshit on homophobes all the time), but our own oxen aren't the only ones endangered of being gored and it gets damn lonely standing up for the "non-Jews".

It's not like you need to agree with even most of what somebody espouses. Hell, I certainly don't agree with what either the Palistianians, Israel and or most Christians espouse. That doesn't mean I don't have an OBLIGATION to defend them when they are being unjustly defamed. I simply believe THEY need to as actively return the favor. After all, it SHOULD be ALL of us against the haters not one tribe fighting another while the haters sit back and laugh.
There's no one here more offended by rw's post than I am. No one. And I am treating it and any ensuing dust up with the respect they deserve: absolutely none.

This isn't about standing up to bigotry. Just the opposite. Everyone alive is a bigot to some degree. No such thing as a 100% secure human being. If people want to let every nut job who comes along (especially a self-described one!) pull their strings have at it. 'Tis your life to waste.
Nicely stated, Alison.
R~Drema
Very well done Allison. Rated for unabashed truth telling.
On behalf of myself and the rest of me, it's impossible for us to oversate our gratification on seeing a major flame war that doesn't involve us. On a different note, I've observed that Nazi motherfucker RWNutJob and his hate-filled comments for years now, and anyone who leaves cute little text hearts on any post of his is, in my estimation, a scumbag.
Nana, when I look at your bald pate I think of the Aryan race masters shearing Jewish locks from their guests at the 'Camps For Jews.' Got a nice ring to it, don't ya think? Camps For Jews? Izzat where you lost your hair before your life turned into a journeyman barber's wallow in poop, eh poopyhead?...wink
Heh heh heh, it said "poopyhead." Way to demonstrate yer intellectual chops there CA.
For Krist's sakes Mr. Karpenter, you're taking this way too seriously. Come on, this is an absurd joke. RW expresses an opinion and stirs up all your Depends panties. You know it's all inconsequential. What IS consequential is that you are a workingman, when you should have been a professional. That's all that counts baldy, and you know it. I know you're kicking yourself in the fanny for NOT going to a university 30 years ago to have become a damn fine labor lawyer, or social justice advocate, which you damn well know was your destiny, if only you hadn't let yourself slide into the workingman's life. Everything else is kidding around like we are tonight. I know YOU better than you can ever know me....serious wink now, don't cry over spilt milk
Thank you for this.
I commented directly to Nutjob, and let him know what I thought of him. Since Fusan stated she was not condoning the vile hate speech that Nutjob spewed on Sally's post, I did not comment to her. But as Bill pointed out, I later saw the comment by Fusan on Nutjob's even more evil post. The Bill copied here in comments, wherein she thanked Nutjob for proving the point of his hate comments about Jews. It is difficult for me to imagine anyone doing that or why they would do such a thing, supporting that kind of filth. And for the record, I do believe that not saying so is giving the hate a pass. It is not ok.
r./
Just watching a documentary called Love, Hate and Propaganda about Jews in World War II, specifically the Polish ghetto and the systematic starvation of the ghetto and the virulently racist propaganda that convinced Germans/Poles that they were "vermin." I would dearly love to tape a few OS eyes open Clockwork Orange style and make them watch this, followed by another documentary on the Armenian genocide.
So sorry not to have been more participatory here - but it seems like good, rational discussions are happening. Sort of.Thanks for so many great comments, and for reading at all.
Soory, Cheshyre, to respond about the tongue in cheek part of your first comment and thanks for returning to say what you really mean.
SBA - I'd take Lea up on that invitation! lea's whole point is that we all likely have some common ground...with a few exceptions, named here.
My life is intervening with my ability to respond here, but please know how much your comments mean to me as i am thankful that you took the time to respond - and I'll try to get back to everyone when i can. Thanks, Alison
Aim, agree with you about the hypocritical forgiveness post, which was a platform for fusie to pose as a victim of those who didn't understand her because they were not as spiritually evolved. The sweet pose, the pretense of not attacking or naming names when in fact most people knew who and what she was criticizing, gags me. It surprises me that more people don't see through it, though the list of the ones who did (in comments) reads like the who's who of smart people on OS. Nutters band together, she's at the very least an anti-semitic apologist, and I'm not surprised she and rwnuts found each other.

But I noticed something else that belies her pose as the sweetest, most sincere person on OS. There is an extremely odd ratio of rates to positive comments on the forgiveness post, so odd that I made a list of those who supported the post and were likely to rate, as well as those who might have rated. I counted 33 certain positive commenters (with multiple posts by some), and another 4 or 5 ambiguous ones who might have rated or not, but who offered criticism. I assumed that some commenters forgot to rate, as per usual, and that a couple of people rated but didn't comment. (There are unlikely to be more than a couple rates without comments; rates with no comments happen in poetry and photo essay posts, not meta- or attack posts.) I would have expected the number of rates to be around 35. Instead, there are 81 last time I looked. There is no evidence of anything like 81 OS supporters for this piece.

This woman, who sees herself as a victim of cliques and imaginary bands of enemies, seems to have created her own invisible posse. They may be non-OS friends whom she prevailed upon to create accounts to rate, or they may be her own sock puppets (she commented as a sock puppet at least once). Supporting her on her own blog would have been safe and easy, not requiring any courage, given the number of legitimate supporters. Why would around 46 people sneak in, rate, and sneak out, leaving no trace? It defies reason.

I know that some people use multiple identities in an artful way, creating characters who amuse us or have a unique point of view. We generally know who they are. This strikes me as very different. She probably has ~35 legitimate rates. That is enough to be in the feed a reasonable amount of time. The need to manipulate the system with such a blatant number of spurious rates strikes me as grandiosity, not to mention serious dishonesty. This is a person with issues.
Sirenita, the raters do leave a trace. Every rate is archived under the "most recent" tab atop the cover. I don't have the time now to check them out, but they're in chronological sequence. Easy to separate out the ghost avatars, if that's what she's done. I suspect also people who rated her post are afraid to be seen because they know they're selling out for a return rate. She's meticulous about posting a comment with the little black heart and a "rate" stamp on as many posts here as she can get to without getting charleyhorses in her fingers. That's one thing about these dustups I find valuable, as they can reveal more about people than is otherwise evident.
Alison, I am heartened by this, as we all should be. I'm so sorry it took me this long to reply and wonder why I didn't see or know about this this sooner... I'd have been FIRST to rate and offer you my thanks. You told the story correctly. It's a story as old as time, hate and bigotry are too often offered openly but are also insidious, hiding under many guises and recruiting by any possible means, especially playing to emotion and mob mentality. We must ALWAYS stand up to it.

I have fought anti-Semitism, racism, sexism, misogyny, homophobia, any kind of hatred all my adult life. Lea's first comment may as well equally have come from me. I don't just talk the talk, I walk the walk.

I gave my replies, I requested privately not to be contacted again, I've not tried to stir the pot or find personal gain. It's as you so clearly and eloquently say, I wrote a post and inadvertently hit a hornets nest.

This is not an innocent, childish or ridiculous "dust-up" ... it's about stone cold hatred, written and defended in black and white. Our outrage is righteous. It's about principles. Dignity. Humanity. To those who would make light of it, I ask, what do you tell your children, the world's children? I hope you know the right answer.
Here's one of Fusun's ghosts. Rate, but no comment and no other activity on OS. I'm sure there are more, but I'm going to bed.

http://open.salon.com/blog/macart
Chicken Mãâàn, thanks for the info. I'll take a look at the most recent tab. So the no-comment rates could simply be a trade, people who rate something they are ashamed to be seen rating, in exchange for her rates? Damn. You're right, you can learn a lot about people.
Follwing Cranky Cus's seconding of Myriad's post, I must "third" it. Myriad expresses my perceptions of this sequence of events very well and I have nothing to add to what she said. Sorry only to be so lacking in originality....
thanks again, everyone. This is now in the "most viewed" feed, which I have no control over. Curiouser and curioser. Sirenita: thanks SO MUCH for that analysis. Many people have been wondering why her post would keep getting rated with no comments. Another way to think about it is all the ratings after the comments stopped, before she closed comments. it seems very dicey to me. and thanks Matt for providing us with a ghost...as many have implied, this is one very sick individual.
So many imprtant points have been made that expand what i wrote (thanks, lezlie especially for weighing in) and i think this speaks for itself, especially through comments. So glad Sally was able to stop by - hi sally! - since i named her in this post.
I am SO curious about the ghost ratings - as well as the 1000 something views here. I think the views might be people looking for an excellent review of the movie ? Who knows.
ew nj has shown up on facebook on the orphans group...madness continues. At least I can confront him, unlike FA who pretends she lives in an alternative world beyond what she actually writes. One is a horrible anti-semite, but at least he's defending it in his way. FA is the more insidious of the two. My disgust and disdain remain the same. Thanks again for your thoughts -xo
Aim, the ghost rates--it's insane. Following Chicken Mãâàn's instructions, I looked to see who was rating Fusun's posts. I started at the end, because there are only 40 pages if history and new rates push old ones out. Her "Forgiveness" was posted on 8/5, and the rate history only went back to 8/8 around noon, so I missed most of the rates for that piece. Still...

I looked at 15 pages before I gave up. I found 24 Fusun alters who made an appearance in a day and a half. There were patterns to the alters. They tended to have either Turkish names or plain vanilla English names (Sonia Smith, Paul Larsen), sometimes with unusual spellings ("guss" instead of "gus", "HARINGTON" instead of "Harrington"). A couple of names were based on colors: stillgreen and blufeather, or evocative of color: ushigrey, emmrose. The profiles were generally without posts at all, except for two that had two posts each. Some had favorites, some had none, and a couple had only Fusun herself as a favorite. When there was an avatar, it was never a face, not even a blurry or cartoonish one. It was usually a bland scene or flower.

I looked at the pattern of comments for those alters that commented. Out of five comments that showed on a page, 2 or 3 from each alter was on a Fusun post. The language of the comments was similar, slightly stilted, barely noticibly non-native English, or else short, staccato sentences. Comments to herself were gushing. Comments to people other than herself also tended to be positive. I found only one, her comment to Tania Richard, a black mom writing about her daughter's disney role models, that was challenging.

Rates and comments did not correspond. Some alters might comment several times on a day in the past, but just rate her current 2 posts, Bursa and Forgiveness, without commenting. She is also feeding rates to a couple of older pieces, Blue and Out of the Shadows, with a few random other rates. When the alters comment or rate non-Fusun posts, they are mostly limited to a select few favorites.

I'm in awe at the sheer effort of manufacturing 70, 80 or 90 rates for each post. I found it too much work to track down what must be another 10 or 20 socks. I documented a few with screen shots of the alter's home page, with the comments labeled as to which post they were for, and a screen shot of the rate activity feed, showing the same alters rating recent posts without commenting. I also have several screenshots of the recent rate pages showing the same alter rating her two most recent pieces within two minutes. There was one alter who rated both Forgiveness and Bursa in the same minute. She moves fast.

I might approach this from the other angle, looking at her comments to find other alters. But I'm pretty satisfied that her great success is a complete fraud. It may well be, as Chicken Mãâàn suggested, that she gets some of her legitimate rates as quid pro quo for rating other bloggers posts. All in all, pathetic.
@Sirenita, you have made an important point. (Several, actually)
This is a woman who believes I have rounded people up to avoid her posts and/or attack her posts. Paranoia and delusions abound. This is a woman who attacks, and then cries, "victim." This, as you said, is a woman with "issues."
If she has any real friends here, they should not be encouraging that behavior. Real friends would see this behavior for what it is: Sick, delusional and paranoid. Real friends would steer her firmly in the direction of some help. This is NOT normal behavior. Real friends would stop feeding it.
I might as well list them, let other people see what they think*:
okaya
onay
seysu
sumjoy
smithson
ayhan
victhar
macart
thecoach
trudie-j
sashira
golsen
sidarneil
swallowtail
blufeather
ushigrey
sophie_g
stillgreen
nmb
yavuzhan
emmrose
britney
seafarer

*OS won't let me paste in the whole url because it looks like spam. But it's the usual, open dot salon dot com slash blog slash ...
Joan, sorry, missed your comment. Yes, her friends, if they cared for her, might try to steer her away from her delusional need for attention and unfounded paranoia. I'm sure I'll be on her shit list pretty fast. Unfortunately, she strikes me as someone with a serious personality disorder, and those tend to be intractable. I've never found her endearing and don't really care what happens to her, but I do abhor her recently stated attitudes. Folks like her begin to decompensate (look at Robin Sneed) and can't keep up the charade forever.
Good grief - I am absolutely floored. I can barely comprehend such defensiveness. Thanks, Sirenita, for this Investigative Report. It shines a whole new ghastly light on the subject.
Thanks, Sirenita. Great job.
This all starts to make horrible sense. On another post (can't remember which one), a "d white" was arguing quite a bit, comment after comment in Fusun's defense, in that slightly odd English, with the same scolding tone of scorn. Someone....I think it was Matt, mentioned a Turkish accent, and suddenly "d white" stopped commenting. I checked his blog, and he's been quite the chatty and effusive commenter, screenfuls of comments, exclusively on Fusun's posts.

Scary. I hope that reading this, as she probably is, she will realize it may be time to seek some professional help. This seems to have been a real bender for her. Sometimes, that's what it takes.
sirenita:

i wish i'd known you were doing this - it would have saved me a few hours last night and this morning.

i found the same fusun alters that you did and all the fake comments and ratings of her own posts.

and i found - and saved via screenshots - the same for another very prominent OS person. i'm deciding at the moment what to do with that. if i were he and knew that exposure was just around the corner, i'd think about closing my account(s) and slinking quietly away.

good work, girl.
Cicken Man and fowl company : fyi, I know at least 4 names on that list personally. After I satrted reading Fusun I recomended her blog to my friends who may have done so to tehirs. We don't write but we like what we read and to keep private.

Chicken Maan: I don't see your your fake follwers

Lady Love
Edwina
Myopic
Mary Beth Williams
Sonja Bjorn
Boris Getcho
etc, etc, etc on your latest chaper. What a fall out of favor?

Now I have to attend my fathe- in-law, so excuse me.
After my first initial carefully worded ( I thought) question as to the attack question on Joan, I noticed many avatars I had not seen before, I went back to their blogs and saw they had commented on Fusun's posts or some of her friends posts and the language appeared the same. I didn't go any further or get into in anymore, I feel a lot was revealed, it answered some questions for me, and made me feel sad also. I don't know how to even make another persona and can't imagine doing so. I have noted the trend on a few posts though, again sad to take this so seriously, so much work.
FYI, here's a link to "d white"'s blog. The scoldy interchange is all there:
http://open.salon.com/blog/imore
"Travis Rogers" is one of the avatars on my list of potential Fusun shadows, though it isn't as clear as all the others. FYI.

but i'm checking what travis posted, just for fun.
no other posts or comments, no favorites.
Start with these two:

Chicken Maaan's imaginary admirers:

http://open.salon.com/blog/sonja_bjorn/ratings

http://open.salon.com/blog/mary_beth_weinberg/ratings

No time for the rest. Figure out yourselves smart people theyre all there tho he erased theire comments and his replies from his own posts.
Green, following the url you posted I found Bobbot's post, which I had missed.

Emma the warrior queen!

And Bobbot seems to be doing ye olde false-equivalency thing. Hate speech and personal anti-Semitic attacks DO NOT equal whatever fulminations the anti-anti-Semitic people come up with. Anti-Semitism 'wins' the contest or, rather, loses, hands-down, end of discussion.

D. White, despite his name, does not write as if English is his mother tongue... And his history here on OS is extremely suspect.
Travis, despite the good-ole-boy name, also writes as if English is not his mother tongue, and his grasp of it is deteriorating as he gets agitated.
Travis - grey head. Whose entire OS oeuvre consists of the two comments on this thread.
That T Rodgers comment just above is the one and only comment, ever, by this Fusun rate puppet?
This is sickness that practically dwarfs THE SNEED!
Strange days indeed
Travis/Fusun/d white/et.al: Please. Stop. Just, stop. It's over. Everybody knows. You're in too deep. You can't take this back. It's unfortunately, real.

Please seek help. Believe it or not, some of us are sad about this, and have hope for you. Sit with your handsome kitty a little while, breathe, then find a professional someone to talk with, someone who can help you. No one here can. Posting as if you are a hundred people who love you isn't a solution. Taking down Matt Paust isn't either. Please.
Seconding Greenheron.
Hey you MORONS. What does it take to get through to you??

I don't know FusnA any better than anyone of you do. But I red her and like what I read. I referred my firends. We don' post our faces. That makes us Unreal ? FUCK you!!!

The culprit among you is teh one who really has te multple personaliries

MYOPIC: http://open.salon.com/blog/myopic/ratings

LADY LOVE: http://open.salon.com/blog/tsauni/ratings

EDWINA CUMMINGS: http://open.salon.com/blog/oliver_monroe/ratings/page/2

RANDY NEWGATE: http://open.salon.com/blog/randy_newgate/ratings


And don't make fun with my typing because yuo don;t have an idea how hard it is to teypr with MS when your nevres are not in your control. Get YOUR heads examainned self-rihgtous assholes!
Heron, Myriad. . . Shhhh! I for one, would like to see this drama extended for at least a couple more agonizing weeks, if not a month. Been a goodly while since I've had the privilege of witnessing an online meltdown.
Thomas. . . please do carry on
Tr ig - you're baaaaaaad. Bad to the bone.
I feel like I just fell down the rabbit hole. Great work all around, but especially by Sirenita.
Travis Rodgers...if all you and your firends do is read Fusun's work and rate it - and that's a large group of friends you got there who are not participating in any other way...what led you here? I didn't comment on Fusun's post.
Would you please name exactly which one of the mentioned names is your friend , how you know them, what you did to get them to rate, etc. etc.? Because i have a lot of friends that are not imaginary, who love my writing, but don't set up accounts just to rate or comment - they read my stuff if i x-post it to FB and sometimes comment there. So I'd love to know how you manage this.
Oh, you don't because you don't exist. Sigh.
It is also of particular interest how quiet a certain person has been today, whilst these "supporters" are running around and commenting. Such a limited number of options, I guess.
Much thanks to Candace for independently verifying this mess. I'm new at this and never paid much attention to the issue of sock puppets, other than the fun, artful ones or the ones people make for talking about certain subjects they don't want to do in their main persona. I've never encountered anything like this and Candace has the professional background to really do it right. I'm interested to know who else she found engaging in this type of massive fraud.

Candace, I wouldn't mind learning some of your storied forensic skills. I sometimes need to hunt down evasive slumlords in my volunteer job for a housing advocacy group and I hear you're good.

I have no idea where this goes next, but Fusun's actual OS friends have a right to know that they're being played.
Off to the dentist. Will check back to see where this has gone.
It's an epidemic!
Ha... Haha... Hahaha.... Hashahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

This is TOO perfect! Thank you ladies! :D
wait... are matt's alters & fusuns alters outing one anothers alters?

this is like Dali's diary up in here. surreal & priceless!
Wow. Matt was so anxious to out Fusun that he inadvertently outed himself.
The irony is, um, ironic.
Great work Sirenita and Candace! I wondered how the heck the fusun persona had 3 posts in the top-rated last 4 hours feed at the same time, and this explains it.
Well said and thoroughly rated!
The whole time I was commenting (as was Bill S) on Bobbot's site to d white, I had the feeling that d white was a fake. The imperious, scolding tone, the curious denial of facts and evidence -- in all, the signs of a delusional person coming undone. I'm sorry I bothered wasting my time arguing with Fusun/d white. Funny -- d white is nowhere to be seen now, is he/she?
What the Nutter did was so disgusting. Thank you for giving some of us who only got in on this at the end the fuller history.
Thank you for this. I just went back to Sally's post to read Fusun's comment. I wrote my own post answering nutjob as best I could.

Amy, what gives you the impression that the Jews and Zionists on OS don't care about other minorities? Personally, I've posted about racism, gay rights, and Islam bashing before, that's aside from comments, that's posts, as has (on at least most of these) Jonathan Wolfman. That's a Hell of an accusation. I don't follow you around enough to know, but what I've seen from you has been primarily feminist (your own group), lesbian (also your own group), and Israel bashing that I suppose passes for Palestinian concern only without holding any Palestinians responsible for anything. Extermination of Palestinians? You know about any mass graves I don't? If the Israelis were looking to exterminate Palestinians they'd be the most inept government at extermination in history. Assad in neighboring Syria is doing a better job on his opponents right now if that's the standard. Exaggeration (that"s as mild a term as I can come up with) doesn't help your reputation any.
Just got back and am sort of reeling from this whole thing - shocked really, because I like Fusan. I don't have the time to invest in a close read of the whole literary trail of events but Fusan's post does not smell right and I'm disturbed by it. Standing on its own it shallowly reads well, says all the feel-good things that appeal to ideals, but coming to it from the comment she left on Sally's post about the shoot out, I can see the distortion. Fusan simply refuses to understand why others would be upset with her comment and chooses instead to turn the teaching opportunity of feedback to her into a case for further division, to support the drama of her martydom. I am part of no clique. I have always liked Fusan, and continue to appreciate her effort to move forward in a positive way. This is something I endeavor myself. It does not require blindness and dangerous selectiveness. It would have served her and us well if, while she pointed out the modicum of somewhat disqualified merit in the Rwnutter's comment she also paid attention to and addressed his hateful anti-semetism. It was shocking. It disqualified his last good sentence the same way a vat of poison would contaminate the good apple that was sitting in it - that nugget came out of the same poisoned machine... It is impossible to understand the distortion of Fusan's post without reading her comment to Sally, and without reading the comment that Fusan was responding to. While Rwnutte's account has probably been deleted which may account for the disappearance of his comment, it survives as a quote somewhere in the comment stream of that post.